Ukraine told critics of the pace of its three-month-old counteroffensive to "shut up" on Thursday, the sharpest signal yet of Kyiv's frustration at leaks from Western officials that say its forces are advancing too slowly.
two sentences is hardly a rant and there are plenty of quotes from american officials and armchair generals about how this war is great because it’s degrading “our enemy” without costing american lives.
I believe that degrading the army of one of the US greatest geopolitical world rivals at the cost of roughly 3% of the DoD budget is money well spent. In that there is no US blood is an added advantage. The Ukrainians are fighting this war for their own purpose, to reject tyrannical rule. That’s something that’s happened for a millennium, including the American revolution.
The US didn’t impose this war, 100,000 Russians invading did. As France helped the US during the revolution, the US helps Ukraine.
I believe that degrading the army of one of the US greatest geopolitical world rivals at the cost of roughly 3% of the DoD budget is money well spent.
They’re not gonna let you into the club just because you lick the boot leather. I believe the 100.000s of dead ukrainians are more important than some vague US geopolitical goal.
The Ukrainians are fighting this war for their own purpose, to reject tyrannical rule.
The ukrainians are forcibly conscripted and banned from leaving their country. They do not want to fight.
The US didn’t impose this war, 100,000 Russians invading did
Yeah one day putler just woke up and felt like invading, that’s what happened.
If you think this is such a good war, go volunteer.
Right right, which countries acknowledge that Palestine exists again?
You don’t care. You’ve never cared! Stop lying to our fucking faces you gremlin, you love this! You love this war because you’re a mindless western drone that loves cheering for imperialism and the deaths of the enemies of ‘the west’
You don’t give a single fuck about countries sovereignty, nor of human rights, nor of life and liberty
World order is acknowledging sovereign countries exist and it’s wrong to invade them
The United States has invaded many more countries than Russia and China, and yet they are sanctioned for doing so/if America thinks they might do so, while not a single person in the American government is punished for the deaths of millions. They even get promoted and hired again on later governments! America created the world order! Rules for thee, not for me!
The Ukrainians could stop this war anytime they want
The Ukrainian government could, the same government that banned every political party that wasn’t sufficiently anti-Russia. And the last time the people got to vote, they elected Zelensky who ran as a peace candidate. So no, the people of Ukraine, the ones being drafted and sent to the front lines, have very little say over whether Ukraine negotiates for peace.
“Wait a minute” None of this surprises you. Youre doing this for show. You want us to feel guilty about our beliefs, and your plan is to act shocked and bewildered by things you know. Begone debate-pervert
There were Nazi groups in the US at the beginning of WWIi. They were quite large. Within a year, every leader of the Bund was interned or jailed as dangerous aliens, and by the end of December 1941, the US Government outlawed the German-American Bund
I thought Ukraine were the Good Guys ™? Good Guys don’t repress political groups because they disagree with them, they should debate them in the marketplace of ideas.
The US jailed every leader of the US Nazi Bund as dangerous aliens, and by the end of December 1941, the US Government outlawed the German-American Bund.
The Ukrainians could stop this war anytime they want, as could Putin.
The ukrainians are being forcibly conscripted and banned from leaving the country. They do not want to fight. The russians have sought peace negotiations several times, NATO-members like the United Kingdom, have come and stopped these negotiations.
Reality is the Russians invaded. They rejected world order.
Ah yes, one day evil putler woke up and decided to invade, that’s what happened. He rejected our Good Guys Rules Based Order because he’s just such an evil dude.
Geez…the Russians too are drafting folks. Conscription centers in Russia are firebombed. Your BS is kind of thick.
I never said they weren’t? Nice whataboutsm. You’re saying the ukrainians want to fight, I show you they don’t, you imply I’m a bot, and you fail to engage with the argument.
No, I think Putin is a murderer, comrade. I think he’s a wanted for war crimes. I think he was so stupid that he thought this would take three days.
Hey thanks for implying I’m a russian bot just because I disagree with you! Fuck you! Newsflash: People can disagree with you.
I’ve never said he wasn’t a murderer or wanted for warcrimes (though if we’re being fair, every US president is wanted for war crimes in several countries as well.) I think a guy who leads a country as big as Russia is many things, but imagining he could move state apparatus on his own to invade another country based on a whim of his, and when this whim fails he would still be in power, is incredibly stupid. Had this been the case, then Prigozhins coup would have had support. Russias reasons for invading are many, boiling it down to “Putler bad lmao” is as stupid as it is naive.
If you think he is specifically so evil, why aren’t you volunteering in Ukraine against him?
The Ukrainians are fighting this war for their own purpose, to reject tyrannical rule.
Yes good thing their escaping tyrannical rule for totally wholesome democratic rule… That bans all opposition parties and bombs their own country for nearly a decade
I mean yes, we are literally seeing more military coups in Africa by left wing folks who are quoting beloved anti-colonial icons, making concrete steps toward proletarian democratic elections and walking the walk on panafricanism. Algeria literally just blocked France from transporting troops through their country. Plenty of people are using the Amerikkkan empire and its European vassals being distracted and exhausted to cast off their shackles.
American revolution was a counterrevolution you dolt. Now go ahead, tell me I “support the British empire” bc you can only think exactly one step ahead.
long extract from Settlers about the nature of the 1776 revolution
We need to see the dialectical unity of democracy and oppression in developing settler Amerika. The winning of citizenship rights by poorer settlers or non-Anglo-Saxon Europeans is democratic in form. The enrollment of the white masses into new, mass instruments of repression-such as the formation of the infamous Slave Patrols in Virginia in 1727 — is obviously anti-democratic and reactionary. Yet these opposites in form are, in their essence, united as aspects of creating the new citizenry of Babylon. This is why our relationship to “democratic” struggles among the settlers has not been one of simple unity.
This was fully proven in practice once again by the 1776 War of Independence, a war in which most of the Indian and Afrikan peoples opposed settler nationhood and the consolidation of Amerika. In fact, the majority of oppressed people gladly allied themselves to the British forces in hopes of crushing the settlers.
This clash, between an Old European empire and the emerging Euro-Amerikan empire, was inevitable decades before actual fighting came. The decisive point came when British capitalism decided to clip the wings of the new Euro-Amerikan bourgeoisie — they restricted emigration, hampered industry and trade, and pursued a long-range plan to confine the settler population to a controllable strip of territory along the Atlantic seacoast. They proposed, for their own imperial needs, that the infant Amerika be permanently stunted. After all, the European conquest of just the Eastern shores of North America had already produced, by the time of Independence, a population almost one-third as large as that of England and Ireland. They feared that unchecked, the Colonial tail might someday wag the imperial dog (as indeed it has).
…
Like Bacon’s Rebellion, the “liberty” that the Amerikan Revolutionists of the 1770’s fought for was in large part the freedom to conquer new Indian lands and profit from the commerce of the slave trade, without any restrictions or limitations. In other words, the bourgeois “freedom” to oppress and exploit others. The successful future of the settler capitalists demanded the scope of independent nationhood.
But as the first flush of settler enthusiasm faded into the unhappy realization of how grim and bloody this war would be, the settler “sunshine soldiers” faded from the ranks to go home and stay home. Almost one-third of the Continental Army deserted at Valley Forge. So enlistment bribes were widely offered to get recruits. New York State offered new enlistments 400 acres each of Indian land. Virginia offered an enlistment bonus of an Afrikan slave (guaranteed to be not younger than age ten) and 100 acres of Indian land. In South Carolina, Gen. Sumter used a share-the-loot scheme, whereby each settler volunteer would get an Afrikan captured from Tory estates. Even these extraordinarily generous offers failed to spark any sacrificial enthusiasm among the settler masses. (14)
It was Afrikans who greeted the war with great enthusiasm. But while the settler slavemasters sought “democracy” through wresting their nationhood away from England, their slaves sought liberation by overthrowing Amerika or escaping from it. Far from being either patriotic Amerikan subjects or passively enslaved neutrals, the Afrikan masses threw themselves daringly and passionately into the jaws of war on an unprecedented scale — that is, into their own war, against slave Amerika and for freedom.
The British, short of troops and laborers, decided to use both the Indian nations and the Afrikan slaves to help bring down the settler rebels. This was nothing unique; the French had extensively used Indian military alliances and the British extensively used Afrikan slave recruits in their 1756-63 war over North America (called “The French & Indian War” in settler history books). But the Euro-Amerikan settlers, sitting on the dynamite of a restive, nationally oppressed Afrikan population, were terrified — and outraged.
This was the final proof to many settlers of King George III’s evil tyranny. An English gentlewoman traveling in the Colonies wrote that popular settler indignation was so great that it stood to unite rebels and Tories again. (15) Tom Paine, in his revolutionary pamphlet Common Sense, raged against “…that barbarous and hellish power which hath stirred up Indians and Negroes to destroy us.” (16) But oppressed peoples saw this war as a wonderful contradiction to be exploited in the ranks of the European capitalists.
Lord Dunmore was Royal Governor of Virginia in name, but ruler over so little that he had to reside aboard a British warship anchored offshore. Urgently needing reinforcements for his outnumbered command, on Nov. 5, 1775 he issued a proclamation that any slaves enlisting in his forces would be freed. Sir Henry Clinton, commander of British forces in North America, later issued an even broader offer:
I do most strictly forbid any Person to sell or claim Right over any Negroe, the property of a Rebel, who may claim refuge in any part of this Army; And I do promise to every Negroe who shall desert the Rebel Standard, full security to follow within these Lines, any Occupation which he shall think proper. (17)
Could any horn have called more clearly? By the thousands upon thousands, Afrikans struggled to reach British lines. One historian of the Exodus has said: “The British move was countered by the Americans, who exercised closer vigilance over their slaves, removed the able-bodied to interior places far from the scene of the war, and threatened with dire punishment all who sought to join the enemy. To Negroes attempting to flee to the British the alternatives ‘Liberty or Death’ took on an almost literal meaning. Nevertheless, by land and sea they made their way to the British forces.” (18)
The war was a disruption to Slave Amerika, a chaotic gap in the European capitalist ranks to be hit hard. Afrikans seized the time — not by the tens or hundreds, but by the many thousands. Amerika shook with the tremors of their movement. The signers of the Declaration of Independence were bitter about their personal losses: Thomas Jefferson lost many of his slaves; Virginia’s Governor Benjamin Harrison lost thirty of “my finest slaves”; William Lee lost sixty-five slaves, and said two of his neighbors “lost every slave they had in the world”; South Carolina’s Arthur Middleton lost fifty slaves. (19)
Afrikans were writing their own “Declaration of Independence” by escaping. Many settler patriots tried to appeal to the British forces to exercise European solidarity and expel the Rebel slaves. George Washington had to denounce his own brother for bringing food to the British troops, in a vain effort to coax them into returning the Washington family slaves. (20) Yes, the settler patriots were definitely upset to see some real freedom get loosed upon the land.
To this day no one really knows how many slaves freed themselves during the war. Georgia settlers were said to have lost over 10,000 slaves, while the number of Afrikan escaped prisoners in South Carolina and Virginia was thought to total well over 50,000. Many, in the disruption of war, passed themselves off as freemen and relocated in other territories, fled to British Florida and Canada, or took refuge in Maroon communities or with the Indian nations. It has been estimated that 100,000 Afrikan prisoners — some 20% of the slave population — freed themselves during the war.
“here is a book that lays out why what you are saying is colonial apologia, with a link to read more if you want to, and the important bits directly quoted for you for your convenience”
“have you considered that somebody who wouldn’t be born for over a hundred years after this is bad?”
Meanwhile literally every US president in my lifetime has either accusations against them of being pedophiles (Trump and Clinton) from victims or a direct connection to either Jeffery Epstein (Bush II, Obama and Biden) or the Franklin Scandal (Bush I)
Not since the roman empire has there ever been a country in the history of the world more run by pedophiles than
Gee…lookee there…an uninformed rant. And what is that goal?
two sentences is hardly a rant and there are plenty of quotes from american officials and armchair generals about how this war is great because it’s degrading “our enemy” without costing american lives.
I believe that degrading the army of one of the US greatest geopolitical world rivals at the cost of roughly 3% of the DoD budget is money well spent. In that there is no US blood is an added advantage. The Ukrainians are fighting this war for their own purpose, to reject tyrannical rule. That’s something that’s happened for a millennium, including the American revolution.
The US didn’t impose this war, 100,000 Russians invading did. As France helped the US during the revolution, the US helps Ukraine.
They’re not gonna let you into the club just because you lick the boot leather. I believe the 100.000s of dead ukrainians are more important than some vague US geopolitical goal.
The ukrainians are forcibly conscripted and banned from leaving their country. They do not want to fight.
Yeah one day putler just woke up and felt like invading, that’s what happened.
If you think this is such a good war, go volunteer.
The Ukrainians could stop this war anytime they want, as could Putin.
Reality is the Russians invaded. They rejected world order.
Based.
Henry Kissinger on suicide watch
World order is acknowledging sovereign countries exist and it’s wrong to invade them
So you’re saying Ukraine rejected world order when it breached Minsk II?
Right right, which countries acknowledge that Palestine exists again?
You don’t care. You’ve never cared! Stop lying to our fucking faces you gremlin, you love this! You love this war because you’re a mindless western drone that loves cheering for imperialism and the deaths of the enemies of ‘the west’
You don’t give a single fuck about countries sovereignty, nor of human rights, nor of life and liberty
Fuck off
Look in a mirror my friend, you may see a hypocrite staring back.
The United States has invaded many more countries than Russia and China, and yet they are sanctioned for doing so/if America thinks they might do so, while not a single person in the American government is punished for the deaths of millions. They even get promoted and hired again on later governments! America created the world order! Rules for thee, not for me!
Russia was sanctioned by NATO countries.
Iraq Libya Afghanistan Vietnam Korea Yemen whould disagree
The Ukrainian government could, the same government that banned every political party that wasn’t sufficiently anti-Russia. And the last time the people got to vote, they elected Zelensky who ran as a peace candidate. So no, the people of Ukraine, the ones being drafted and sent to the front lines, have very little say over whether Ukraine negotiates for peace.
Wait a minute…you expect a country to tolerate those sympathetic with a country.that they’re at war with?
why is it that every ukkkraine shill acts like history started in february 2022
a lot of those bannings were pre-2022
“Wait a minute” None of this surprises you. Youre doing this for show. You want us to feel guilty about our beliefs, and your plan is to act shocked and bewildered by things you know. Begone debate-pervert
There were Nazi groups in the US at the beginning of WWIi. They were quite large. Within a year, every leader of the Bund was interned or jailed as dangerous aliens, and by the end of December 1941, the US Government outlawed the German-American Bund
I thought Ukraine were the Good Guys ™? Good Guys don’t repress political groups because they disagree with them, they should debate them in the marketplace of ideas.
The US jailed every leader of the US Nazi Bund as dangerous aliens, and by the end of December 1941, the US Government outlawed the German-American Bund.
The world order where the US is allowed to invade Iraq and kill a million people on a lie? That world order?
The ukrainians are being forcibly conscripted and banned from leaving the country. They do not want to fight. The russians have sought peace negotiations several times, NATO-members like the United Kingdom, have come and stopped these negotiations.
Ah yes, one day evil putler woke up and decided to invade, that’s what happened. He rejected our Good Guys Rules Based Order because he’s just such an evil dude.
Geez…the Russians too are drafting folks. Conscription centers in Russia are firebombed. Your BS is kind of thick.
The Russians have not sought peace negotiations.
No, I think Putin is a murderer, comrade. I think he’s a wanted for war crimes. I think he was so stupid that he thought this would take three days.
I never said they weren’t? Nice whataboutsm. You’re saying the ukrainians want to fight, I show you they don’t, you imply I’m a bot, and you fail to engage with the argument.
So that was a fucking lie![](https://lemmy.kya.moe/imgproxy?src=hexbear.net%2fpictrs/image/7974d3c4-005c-4f81-89f0-843bcdc45b20.png)
[1] [2] [3] [4] [5]
Hey thanks for implying I’m a russian bot just because I disagree with you! Fuck you! Newsflash: People can disagree with you.
I’ve never said he wasn’t a murderer or wanted for warcrimes (though if we’re being fair, every US president is wanted for war crimes in several countries as well.) I think a guy who leads a country as big as Russia is many things, but imagining he could move state apparatus on his own to invade another country based on a whim of his, and when this whim fails he would still be in power, is incredibly stupid. Had this been the case, then Prigozhins coup would have had support. Russias reasons for invading are many, boiling it down to “Putler bad lmao” is as stupid as it is naive.
If you think he is specifically so evil, why aren’t you volunteering in Ukraine against him?
“I never said they weren’t.” You said that because Ukraine drafts fighters they don’t want to fight. That’s BS.
There has been no Russian yearning for peace talks. Even china’s efforts could not move the needle.
Newsflash: calling someone comrade does not imply anything
Name a US president wanted by the International Criminal Court.
Putin is stupid. Prigozhin’s coup did have support and now he’s dead.
Why aren’t you fighting in Ukraine right now?
Lol, lmao even
“They rejected world order” I think you should be killed like someone in the Bible
”This is a US proxy war.”
”That’s an uninformed rant!”
…
”This is a US proxy war, and that’s a good thing.”
Proxy War…
a war instigated by a major power which does not itself become involved.
You are saying that the US had a role in instigating this war? What was it? Sounds like Putin’s language to justify his stupidity
The coup that they orchestrated in 2014 with the help of Nazis and Victoria Nuland. https://truthout.org/articles/the-ukraine-mess-that-nuland-made/
Sure hated to see that Putin puppet go, didn’t you. That happens sometimes. I hate Nazis, especially Chicago Nazis.
You hate nazis, yet you support them. Curious :thonk:
Ever see the Blues Brothers?
Yes good thing their escaping tyrannical rule for totally wholesome democratic rule… That bans all opposition parties and bombs their own country for nearly a decade
The Russians have flattened whole cities.
Just found out what war is. Damn that shit sucks
Real “Antifa is burning cities to the ground!” Energy
Which is why so many nations are smelling the blood in the water and casting off their western neocolonial overlords in Africa right now.
Lmao.
deleted by creator
Yes, Niger is a harbinger of the future…right
I mean yes, we are literally seeing more military coups in Africa by left wing folks who are quoting beloved anti-colonial icons, making concrete steps toward proletarian democratic elections and walking the walk on panafricanism. Algeria literally just blocked France from transporting troops through their country. Plenty of people are using the Amerikkkan empire and its European vassals being distracted and exhausted to cast off their shackles.
Oh fuck these are the best emojis yet lmao
Holy shit this is amazing
Holy fuck the emojis got an upgrade
We have the best emojis folks, many people are saying this.
oh look we found the intern at Langley
American revolution was a counterrevolution you dolt. Now go ahead, tell me I “support the British empire” bc you can only think exactly one step ahead.
“US Blood”![hitler-detector hitler-detector](https://lemmy.kya.moe/imgproxy?src=www.hexbear.net%2fpictrs/image/a7e53fbd-6df2-4a41-b261-434cb7c73535.png)
You’re a monster lmao gtfo
Who gives a fuck about the money? Hundreds of thousands are dead, and we are close to nuclear annihilation.
You are enthralled to a demon. Wake up and imagine you were marched to the frontlines.
https://readsettlers.org/ch2.html
long extract from Settlers about the nature of the 1776 revolution
…
Mao like prepubesent little girls.
“here is a book that lays out why what you are saying is colonial apologia, with a link to read more if you want to, and the important bits directly quoted for you for your convenience”
I’m sure there is
Saka stole from Mao who was an old pedophile
Meanwhile literally every US president in my lifetime has either accusations against them of being pedophiles (Trump and Clinton) from victims or a direct connection to either Jeffery Epstein (Bush II, Obama and Biden) or the Franklin Scandal (Bush I)
Not since the roman empire has there ever been a country in the history of the world more run by pedophiles than![amerikkka amerikkka](https://lemmy.kya.moe/imgproxy?src=www.hexbear.net%2fpictrs/image/6dedb145-206a-4b35-ab5e-c9e41e1130c7.png)
Bazinga
Go yell at your stepson you shifty guilty scam artist
Fix your attitude first.
Nothing to fix.
deleted by creator
Under achievement
Fuck this tankie shit. I knew lemmy was made by tankies, I did not know that majority of people here are also russian shills
Don’t blame us because reality is Marxist![che-si che-si](https://lemmy.kya.moe/imgproxy?src=hexbear.net%2fpictrs/image/743d2906-3874-4e75-8f19-47b02c4ccde6.png)
“Shills” implies we’re being paid and I take offense to that because I wish I were getting paid for this
You just gotta send an email to President xi for your posterbucks. Xxxi@langley.gov
Hell yeah dude you should own us by leaving
Not the sharpest tool in the shed, are we?