No I mean Israel. Israel is a sponsor of terrorism. In the Occupied Territories, the IDF and the Israeli state are continuously aiding and abetting radical settler militias in terrorizing the indigenous population, like their terrorist forefathers in the Irgun in the 1940s. In Gaza, the IDF itself is employing mass terror tactics against the population in service of ethnic cleansing. In Lebanon, the Mossad employed terror tactics with the mass detonation of battery-operated devices a couple of weeks ago. They are also currently employing mass terror tactics against the Lebanese population. They have also engaged in extra-judicial assassinations of political figures, another terror tactic. Israel is a major source of terror and destabilization in the Middle East. They should fucking stop.
gee,i wonder who attacked israel and called for the destruction of israel when they decided to proclaim independence??
who was it that decided to leave no stone unturned and ensure something something from the river to the sea?
can’t really blame the jewish people for being jittery after experiencing ww2.
wanna stablise middle east??? maybe stop calling for the genocide of the jewish state,her people and stop wanting to something something river to the sea.
You again are conflating Zionism with Judaism, which are 2 very different things. Israel has never represented all Jewish people and never will, nor are it’s actions done to benefit all Jewish people. The conflation is itself antisemitic. Adi Callai, an Israeli, does a great analysis of how Antisemitism has been weaponized (see 29:01) by Zionism during its history.
Origins of Zionism
Zionism is a settler colonialism project that was able to really start with the support of British Imperialism. Zionism as a political movement started with Theodore Herzl in the 1880s as a ‘modern’ way to ‘solve’ the ‘Jewish Question’ of Europe.
Since at least the 1860’s, Europe was increasingly antisemitic and hostile to Jewish people. Zionism was explicitly a Setter Colonialist movement and the native Palestinians were not considered People but Savages by the Europeans. While Zionist Colonization began before it, the Balfor Declaration is when Britain gave it’s backing of the movement in order to ‘solve’ the ‘Jewish Question’ while also creating a Colony in the newly conquered Middle East after WWI in order to exhibit military force in the region and extract natural resources.
That’s when Zionist immigration started to pick up, out of necessity for most as Europe became more hostile and antisemitic. That continued into and during WWII, European countries and even the US refused to expand immigration quotas for Jewish people seeking asylum. The idea that the creation of Israel is a reparation for Jewish people is an after-the-fact justification. While most Jewish immigrants had no choice and just wanted a place to live in peace, it was the Zionist Leadership that developed and implemented the forced transfer, ethnic cleansing, of the native population, Palestinians. Without any Occupation, Apartheid, and ethnic cleansing, there would not be any Palestinian resistance to it.
Herzl himself explicitly considered Zionism a Settler Colonialist project, Setter Colonialism is always violent. The difficulty in creating a democratic Jewish state in an area inhabited by people who are not Jewish, is that enough Palestinian people need to be ‘Transferred’ to have a demographic majority that is Jewish. Ben-Gurion explicitly rejected Secular Bi-national state solutions in favor of partition.
Quote
Zionism’s aims in Palestine, its deeply-held conviction
that the Land of Israel belonged exclusively to the Jewish people as a whole, and the idea of Palestine’s “civilizational barrenness" or “emptiness” against the background of European imperialist ideologies all converged in the logical conclusion that the native population should make way for thenewcomers.
The idea that the Palestinian Arabs must find a place for themselves elsewhere was articulated early on. Indeed, the founder of the movement, Theodor Herzl, provided an early reference to transfer even before he formally outlined his theory of Zionist rebirth in his Judenstat.
An 1895 entry in his diary provides in embryonic form many of the elements that were to be demonstrated repeatedly in the Zionist quest for solutions to the “Arab problem ”-the idea of dealing with state governments over the heads of the indigenous population, Jewish acquisition of property that would be inalienable, “Hebrew Land" and “Hebrew Labor,” and the removal of the native population.
Israel justifies the settlements and military bases in the West Bank in the name of Security. However, the reality of the settlements on-the-ground has been the cause of violent resistance and a significant obstacle to peace, as it has been for decades.
This type of settlement, where the native population gets ‘Transferred’ to make room for the settlers, is a long standing practice.
Further, declassified Israeli documents show that the Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were deliberately planned before being executed in 1967:
The settlements are maintained through a violent apartheid that routinely employs violence towards Palestinians and denies human rights like water access, civil rights, etc. This kind of control gives rise to violent resistance to the Apartheid occupation, jeopardizing the safety of Israeli civilians.
State violence – official and otherwise – is part and parcel of Israel’s apartheid regime, which aims to create a Jewish-only space between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea. The regime treats land as a resource designed to serve the Jewish public, and accordingly uses it almost exclusively to develop and expand existing Jewish residential communities and to build new ones. At the same time, the regime fragments Palestinian space, dispossesses Palestinians of their land and relegates them to living in small, over-populated enclaves.
The apartheid regime is based on organized, systemic violence against Palestinians, which is carried out by numerous agents: the government, the military, the Civil Administration, the Supreme Court, the Israel Police, the Israel Security Agency, the Israel Prison Service, the Israel Nature and Parks Authority, and others. Settlers are another item on this list, and the state incorporates their violence into its own official acts of violence. Settler violence sometimes precedes instances of official violence by Israeli authorities, and at other times is incorporated into them. Like state violence, settler violence is organized, institutionalized, well-equipped and implemented in order to achieve a defined strategic goal.
I called for the end of Israeli state terror and you name that a call for genociding jews. That’s batshit insane and paranoid buddy. (By the way, you can’t “genocide a state”, that’s bullshit.)
And quit it with the zionist apologia. None of the “ooo who did that 70 years ago” matters, this is the post-Oslo world, when the PLO/PA has formally accepted Israel’s right to exist, all while Israel colonizes their lands in clear violation of their own signed agreements. Save it for evangelical fundamentalist bootlickers and impressionable young diaspora kids who haven’t been deprogrammed yet.
everyone arbitrary decides how far back in time they get to use to justify their genocidal action,hamas,plo,pla and whichever islamic terrorists sees fit to use.
then we have the idiots chiming in to regurgitate the islamic propaganda and rant about zionists this and zionists that.
mofo,if you want middle east to be at peace,end hamas,their supporters and the rest of the Islamic terrorist organizations.
saudi arabia and israel were on the cusp of normalizing relations until Oct 7th where hamas terrorists decides to do what they do best and today we have people like you blaming israel for anything and everything. if israel is such a terror state,i am pretty sure it wouldn’t have survived until today and prosper unlike gaza with their terrorist tendencies and supporters.
Did you miss the part where they said to save it? Nobody here is going to ever read this exchange and change their mind to agree with you. This isn’t reddit or Facebook
Get off your nationalist garrison mentality and you’ll immediately see that I’m not blaming Israel for everything. I specifically started by saying that “Iran should definitely stop harbouring terrorism”. Literally my very first fucking sentence in this interaction. I have no hesitation to also label Hezbollah and Hamas as despicable terrorists as well. Fuck. Them.
What I am also doing is blaming Israel for what Israel does, something that you are having trouble computing because you’re trapped in an “us and them” knuckle-dragging mentality.
Super conveniently for your terror narrative, the ONE accusation that you don’t even mention is my very FIRST one: that Israel is aiding and abetting terrorism by radical settler militias against the indigenous population of the West Bank. That alone is enough to 100% condemn Israel as a state sponsor of terror.
We have an actual A/B testing scenario here, a perfect natural experiment. The West Bank is what “Palestine without Hamas” looks like. And damningly for kahanist bootlickers “Palestine without Hamas” is an apartheid state/bantustan where the Israeli state apparatus has banalized the extreme degradation, oppression, murder and dehumanization of 2 million people.
blag blah blah,israel bad,hamas bad but lets focus on israel and remeber hamas isnt part of palestine but lump israel and the zionist together.
mofo,there are people in Israel that doesn’t support the settlers doing their shit on the west bank or bibi using Oct 7th as an excuse to go all out.
you conveniently lump all israel and zionist together and then back tracked so fast separating hamas and palestine when being pointed out for your bias.
wanna fuck bibi and those settlers,i am all for it,be specific instead of lumping israel and the rest of the zionists as one and then proceeds to separate hamas,their supporters from the palestinians.
i swear,you people cannot even be consistent with your propaganda and fuckery.
What the fuck are you even talking about? What is Bibi, some pariah, some exception? In the 21st century, there are more years where Netanyahu has been PM of Israel than there are when he wasn’t. Before him it was Ariel fucking Sharon. For the vast majority of time since Oslo, it’s been either Likud or some Likud splinter in power. The basic outlines of the original Likud program are by now Israel’s official policy. Fuck, they have been building “facts on the ground” for 30 years. The facts on the ground are now just the FACTS. Israel took a dump on Oslo, and its shit stinks.
And yea I know that other types of Zionism exist, and that “not all Zionists” are rabid genocidal lunatics. But for the last 30 years, the Israeli Right has DOMINATED what it means to be a zionist. The Sharon-Netanyahu style of Zionism, is the really existing Zionism that is in POWER. And fuck no, I don’t need to be doing the “not all Israelis” dance, not any more than when the Greek government does shit. When Modi sends assassination squads to kill Sikhs in Canada, we don’t say “not all Indians”, we condemn Indian sponsorship of terror. I’m not going to give Israeli terrorism a pass just because it’s Israeli. ISRAEL IS NOT SPECIAL. Israeli shit smells just as bad as Greek shit or Turkish shit or Lebanese shit.
That’s why I’m saying that Israel the country, is a sponsor of settler terrorism. The country’s army protects them. The country’s government arms them and leaves them unpunished. The country’s services over time legalize their land grabs and offer them amenities. THIS IS WHAT STATE SPONSORSHIP OF TERROR LOOKS LIKE. If you can’t wrap your head around the fact that this does not constitute a condemnation of every israeli out there, or worse of every jew out there, that’s a You problem. And if your feefees about what Zionism should be are hurt by the reality of what Really Existing Zionism actually does are hurt, too bad for your feefees.
if you meant hamas,they are in gaza not israel unless these hamas terrorists managed to dig a hole to israel.
No I mean Israel. Israel is a sponsor of terrorism. In the Occupied Territories, the IDF and the Israeli state are continuously aiding and abetting radical settler militias in terrorizing the indigenous population, like their terrorist forefathers in the Irgun in the 1940s. In Gaza, the IDF itself is employing mass terror tactics against the population in service of ethnic cleansing. In Lebanon, the Mossad employed terror tactics with the mass detonation of battery-operated devices a couple of weeks ago. They are also currently employing mass terror tactics against the Lebanese population. They have also engaged in extra-judicial assassinations of political figures, another terror tactic. Israel is a major source of terror and destabilization in the Middle East. They should fucking stop.
gee,i wonder who attacked israel and called for the destruction of israel when they decided to proclaim independence??
who was it that decided to leave no stone unturned and ensure something something from the river to the sea?
can’t really blame the jewish people for being jittery after experiencing ww2.
wanna stablise middle east??? maybe stop calling for the genocide of the jewish state,her people and stop wanting to something something river to the sea.
The slogan From the River to the Sea is about Palestinian liberation that started in the 60s by the PLO for a democratic secular state, not Genocide. The Syrian leader Hafez al-Assad in 1966 maybe, but he’s not Palestinian.
You again are conflating Zionism with Judaism, which are 2 very different things. Israel has never represented all Jewish people and never will, nor are it’s actions done to benefit all Jewish people. The conflation is itself antisemitic. Adi Callai, an Israeli, does a great analysis of how Antisemitism has been weaponized (see 29:01) by Zionism during its history.
Origins of Zionism
Zionism is a settler colonialism project that was able to really start with the support of British Imperialism. Zionism as a political movement started with Theodore Herzl in the 1880s as a ‘modern’ way to ‘solve’ the ‘Jewish Question’ of Europe.
Since at least the 1860’s, Europe was increasingly antisemitic and hostile to Jewish people. Zionism was explicitly a Setter Colonialist movement and the native Palestinians were not considered People but Savages by the Europeans. While Zionist Colonization began before it, the Balfor Declaration is when Britain gave it’s backing of the movement in order to ‘solve’ the ‘Jewish Question’ while also creating a Colony in the newly conquered Middle East after WWI in order to exhibit military force in the region and extract natural resources.
That’s when Zionist immigration started to pick up, out of necessity for most as Europe became more hostile and antisemitic. That continued into and during WWII, European countries and even the US refused to expand immigration quotas for Jewish people seeking asylum. The idea that the creation of Israel is a reparation for Jewish people is an after-the-fact justification. While most Jewish immigrants had no choice and just wanted a place to live in peace, it was the Zionist Leadership that developed and implemented the forced transfer, ethnic cleansing, of the native population, Palestinians. Without any Occupation, Apartheid, and ethnic cleansing, there would not be any Palestinian resistance to it.
Herzl himself explicitly considered Zionism a Settler Colonialist project, Setter Colonialism is always violent. The difficulty in creating a democratic Jewish state in an area inhabited by people who are not Jewish, is that enough Palestinian people need to be ‘Transferred’ to have a demographic majority that is Jewish. Ben-Gurion explicitly rejected Secular Bi-national state solutions in favor of partition.
Quote
Settlements, Occupation, and Apartheid
Israel justifies the settlements and military bases in the West Bank in the name of Security. However, the reality of the settlements on-the-ground has been the cause of violent resistance and a significant obstacle to peace, as it has been for decades.
This type of settlement, where the native population gets ‘Transferred’ to make room for the settlers, is a long standing practice.
The mass ethnic cleansing campaign of 1948:
Further, declassified Israeli documents show that the Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were deliberately planned before being executed in 1967:
While the peace process was exploited to continue de-facto annexation of the West Bank via Settlements
The settlements are maintained through a violent apartheid that routinely employs violence towards Palestinians and denies human rights like water access, civil rights, etc. This kind of control gives rise to violent resistance to the Apartheid occupation, jeopardizing the safety of Israeli civilians.
Visualizing the Ethnic Cleansing
Historian Works on the History
Palestine: A Four Thousand Year History - Nur Masalha
The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948 - Nur Masalha
A History of Modern Palestine - Ilan Pappe
The Hundred Years’ War on Palestine - Rashid Khalidi
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine - Ilan Pappe
The 1967 Arab-Israeli War: Origins and Consequences - Avi Shlaim
The Biggest Prison on Earth: A History of the Occupied Territories - Ilan Pappe
The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development - Sara Roy
10 Myths About Israel - Ilan Pappe (summery)
I called for the end of Israeli state terror and you name that a call for genociding jews. That’s batshit insane and paranoid buddy. (By the way, you can’t “genocide a state”, that’s bullshit.)
And quit it with the zionist apologia. None of the “ooo who did that 70 years ago” matters, this is the post-Oslo world, when the PLO/PA has formally accepted Israel’s right to exist, all while Israel colonizes their lands in clear violation of their own signed agreements. Save it for evangelical fundamentalist bootlickers and impressionable young diaspora kids who haven’t been deprogrammed yet.
can’t read well can you?
everyone arbitrary decides how far back in time they get to use to justify their genocidal action,hamas,plo,pla and whichever islamic terrorists sees fit to use.
then we have the idiots chiming in to regurgitate the islamic propaganda and rant about zionists this and zionists that.
mofo,if you want middle east to be at peace,end hamas,their supporters and the rest of the Islamic terrorist organizations.
saudi arabia and israel were on the cusp of normalizing relations until Oct 7th where hamas terrorists decides to do what they do best and today we have people like you blaming israel for anything and everything. if israel is such a terror state,i am pretty sure it wouldn’t have survived until today and prosper unlike gaza with their terrorist tendencies and supporters.
Did you miss the part where they said to save it? Nobody here is going to ever read this exchange and change their mind to agree with you. This isn’t reddit or Facebook
Get off your nationalist garrison mentality and you’ll immediately see that I’m not blaming Israel for everything. I specifically started by saying that “Iran should definitely stop harbouring terrorism”. Literally my very first fucking sentence in this interaction. I have no hesitation to also label Hezbollah and Hamas as despicable terrorists as well. Fuck. Them.
What I am also doing is blaming Israel for what Israel does, something that you are having trouble computing because you’re trapped in an “us and them” knuckle-dragging mentality. Super conveniently for your terror narrative, the ONE accusation that you don’t even mention is my very FIRST one: that Israel is aiding and abetting terrorism by radical settler militias against the indigenous population of the West Bank. That alone is enough to 100% condemn Israel as a state sponsor of terror.
We have an actual A/B testing scenario here, a perfect natural experiment. The West Bank is what “Palestine without Hamas” looks like. And damningly for kahanist bootlickers “Palestine without Hamas” is an apartheid state/bantustan where the Israeli state apparatus has banalized the extreme degradation, oppression, murder and dehumanization of 2 million people.
blag blah blah,israel bad,hamas bad but lets focus on israel and remeber hamas isnt part of palestine but lump israel and the zionist together.
mofo,there are people in Israel that doesn’t support the settlers doing their shit on the west bank or bibi using Oct 7th as an excuse to go all out.
you conveniently lump all israel and zionist together and then back tracked so fast separating hamas and palestine when being pointed out for your bias.
wanna fuck bibi and those settlers,i am all for it,be specific instead of lumping israel and the rest of the zionists as one and then proceeds to separate hamas,their supporters from the palestinians.
i swear,you people cannot even be consistent with your propaganda and fuckery.
What the fuck are you even talking about? What is Bibi, some pariah, some exception? In the 21st century, there are more years where Netanyahu has been PM of Israel than there are when he wasn’t. Before him it was Ariel fucking Sharon. For the vast majority of time since Oslo, it’s been either Likud or some Likud splinter in power. The basic outlines of the original Likud program are by now Israel’s official policy. Fuck, they have been building “facts on the ground” for 30 years. The facts on the ground are now just the FACTS. Israel took a dump on Oslo, and its shit stinks.
And yea I know that other types of Zionism exist, and that “not all Zionists” are rabid genocidal lunatics. But for the last 30 years, the Israeli Right has DOMINATED what it means to be a zionist. The Sharon-Netanyahu style of Zionism, is the really existing Zionism that is in POWER. And fuck no, I don’t need to be doing the “not all Israelis” dance, not any more than when the Greek government does shit. When Modi sends assassination squads to kill Sikhs in Canada, we don’t say “not all Indians”, we condemn Indian sponsorship of terror. I’m not going to give Israeli terrorism a pass just because it’s Israeli. ISRAEL IS NOT SPECIAL. Israeli shit smells just as bad as Greek shit or Turkish shit or Lebanese shit.
That’s why I’m saying that Israel the country, is a sponsor of settler terrorism. The country’s army protects them. The country’s government arms them and leaves them unpunished. The country’s services over time legalize their land grabs and offer them amenities. THIS IS WHAT STATE SPONSORSHIP OF TERROR LOOKS LIKE. If you can’t wrap your head around the fact that this does not constitute a condemnation of every israeli out there, or worse of every jew out there, that’s a You problem. And if your feefees about what Zionism should be are hurt by the reality of what Really Existing Zionism actually does are hurt, too bad for your feefees.
so when hamas commits acts of terror,state sponsorship from palestine and her people or they get a pass because,palestine?