No. I’ve come to terms with who I am and even like some aspects of it that I would miss so I wouldn’t give it up if I had the choice, but it’s a disability for me, has been a very hard struggle, and I don’t even have it as severe as some. I wouldn’t wish this on more people. (Unless it was 100% of people because most of the struggles I have with the tism come from trying to live in a world designed by NTs that probably wouldn’t exist in a world where everyone had tism)
Oh, I getchu. I would say a huge component of the disability, probably almost all of it, is because of the ways society is structured to punish anyone who isn’t a NT majority-demographic person. (Which means it literally would be better if it was 100%).
That is precisely the issue. The world runs on NT worldviews. Try making someone with autism give a fuck about money (unless that’s their special interest). You can’t. And since this world is run on obsession with money, NT people win and ND people get fucked
Autism is a wide spectrum involving people with different life experiences. It’s ok for you to say that you personally don’t like being autistic, but do not use that to throw dirt on the people who are doing fine despite social discrimination.
Unless it was 100% of people because most of the struggles I have with the tism come from trying to live in a world designed by NTs that probably wouldn’t exist in a world where everyone had tism
…And this adds even more to my point. This sounds to me like the message of someone who isn’t suffering so much due to their innate characteristics as they have due to being discriminated. If you’re at that point, the logical position isn’t “I wish to be normal”, but “I wish society wasn’t so full of assholes and was more tolerant”.
The classic Ouroboros of virtue. You tried so hard to be an ally that you alienated the one you are sticking up for. They didn’t throw dirt on anyone, they gave their own opinion about a first hand experience and you had the audacity to tell them that they were wrong (“logically”, of course, so that it sounds like a fact that they can’t argue with). They said they like some aspects of it, to the point where they wouldn’t give it up given the choice and you straw-manned them with “I wish to be normal”. They introduced nuance into the conversation and you chose to interpret that as black and white dissent.
The most difficult part of having autism for me is the need to analyze everything to try and figure out why people are acting the way they are.
No issues here, that attitude helps to solve misunderstandings.
I was thinking you might have autism from your post
Correct, I said so somewhere else.
They are expressing their feelings, and a neurotypical person would probably see your response as dismissive because you are telling them what they should feel instead.
I don’t want to invalidate anyone’s feelings, but everyone might have misdirected feelings sometimes. For instance, it is common among victims of abuse to hate themselves rather than the perpetrators of the abuse. If someone has an inherently debilitating condition, it’s perfectly natural for them to hate that condition. If someone has a condition that is, for the most part, neutral, but suffers social discrimination because of it, and places the origin of their pain in their condition, rather than in the discrimination, that is similar to an ethnic minority who suffers from racism growing into hating the fact that they’re an ethnic minority. If someone literally says “most of the struggles I have with the tism come from trying to live in a world designed by NTs”, that pretty much sounds like they do fit what I’m saying. Because autism is a wide spectrum, I’m aware that some people in it do actually have innate difficulties due to being on the spectrum that wouldn’t have emerged in a perfect environment, and if you read my original comment, you’ll see that I’m speaking in terms of possibilities and conditionals. But there is also a lot of autistic people who shouldn’t unload their loathing into being autistic, but into the fact that suffering discrimination through their whole lives has made them accrue so much trauma that they’ve developed a different debilitating condition.
I am thinking that you might be getting downvoted because the problem seems to be an emotional subtext that isn’t immediately obvious.
That’s the case for at least some of the downvotes. There is also at least one user who was defending the narrative that every person on the spectrum should hate the condition.
I am thinking they expect you to identify yourself as having autism, and without that frame of reference a neurotypical person might jump to conclusions that you aren’t?
Do you mean this in the sense that I didn’t initially mention I’m autistic, or in the sense of the dichotomy “being autistic vs having autism”? If it’s the former, that’s on their part for jumping into conclusions. If it’s the latter, they should read into it and accept the reasons that lead some people to prefer one kind of language over the other.
I appreciate your interest into having a clear understanding of the discussion. Have a good day.
Yeah, I read it. Yeah, I’m autistic too but you didn’t lead with that so it wouldn’t have been proper for me to assume, now would it? As a brief aside, that makes the Ouroboros analogy even stronger so I’m not exactly sure what ethos you think that brings to the conversation. I disagree with your interpretation of @flerp@lemm.ee 's comment to the point where I would say it is careless bullying. They didn’t say anything wrong or try to push their agenda on anyone. They merely gave their own opinion based on their own experiences as they are entitled to do. Instead of accusing them with flimsy fallacy after fallacy, simply try to make your point. If you can’t make your point without shitting on someone else then re-evaluate if it is a point worth making. Flerp’s comment was basically just “I wouldn’t wish this on anyone” with about a paragraph of padding to apologize for and rationalize why it was ok to say that when others have had different experiences. They were clearly very conscientious about how it could be misinterpreted and you went ahead and misinterpreted it anyways. Slow down, read, be kind.
If you see a comment that breaks the rules, please report it and include which rule you believe it violated in the “reason” box. Don’t argue/reply to comments that break the rules, just ignore them or block the user after you’ve reported it.
I cannot report the comment of an user I have blocked, but you have had the chance to see it if you even put the minimum effort to check the context of my comment that you removed.
The comment of that user is in line with a social trend that aims to silence the voices of autism self advocates, to impose the discourse that autism is an ill that must be destroyed. If you had checked the other comments of that user, you would seen them speaking in behalf of parents of autistic people, rather than in behalf of autistic people themselves. Maintain the context and change the term: [No one likes being gay], [No one likes being black]. It is not difficult to see that it is hate speech. The fact that you warned someone getting angry at an user telling them that their identity ought not to exist, and actively or inadvertently promoting hate speech, but did nothing with the initial offending comments, makes me distrust the moderation of this community. Do you understand the issue?
Once again, you’re being rude and aggressive. You are now banned from this community.
But to address the accusations you’ve made against the moderation of this community; I replied to your comment immediately despite it being a really inconvenient time. I didn’t ignore you or just ban you, I took the time to explain the reporting process because you’re clearly upset/frustrated. Before I did that I did attempt to check the context. This is all I can see on mobile (remember it’s an inconvenient time):
Nothing in that comment breaks the rules. That is far more than the minimum effort in my opinion.
In the sidebar and the stickied post at the top of this community it’s explained that moderators are not the thought/morality police. My job is only to enforce the rules, not judge who is right in a discussion. I’m was not part of your discussion and I’m not interested in getting my involved outside of my obligations as a moderator. Your comments broke the rules, the other users didn’t, so you got a warning.
You’ve continued to break the rules so now you are banned from this community. I will only ban you for 3 months because this is clearly an emotive topic for you - we can all lose our head over issues that effect us personally. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that this is the case. Any further rule violations will result in an immediate and permanent ban.
I’ve been patient, prompt and fair, and I’ve put more time and effort into responding to you than I think would be expected. I assume you can complain about my moderation to the instance admins if you remain concerned.
Nobody likes being autistic for fuck sakes. It’s like saying don’t kick dirt on people who say they’re happy they lost their legs in an accident because their wheelchair is handier.
The idea that people with autism is some kind of trade-off with benefits is a Rain Man fallacy. Whatever weird quirks come with it that are endearing, a thousand awful things make it hard to live with.
No. I’ve come to terms with who I am and even like some aspects of it that I would miss so I wouldn’t give it up if I had the choice, but it’s a disability for me, has been a very hard struggle, and I don’t even have it as severe as some. I wouldn’t wish this on more people. (Unless it was 100% of people because most of the struggles I have with the tism come from trying to live in a world designed by NTs that probably wouldn’t exist in a world where everyone had tism)
Oh, I getchu. I would say a huge component of the disability, probably almost all of it, is because of the ways society is structured to punish anyone who isn’t a NT majority-demographic person. (Which means it literally would be better if it was 100%).
That is precisely the issue. The world runs on NT worldviews. Try making someone with autism give a fuck about money (unless that’s their special interest). You can’t. And since this world is run on obsession with money, NT people win and ND people get fucked
Autism is a wide spectrum involving people with different life experiences. It’s ok for you to say that you personally don’t like being autistic, but do not use that to throw dirt on the people who are doing fine despite social discrimination.
…And this adds even more to my point. This sounds to me like the message of someone who isn’t suffering so much due to their innate characteristics as they have due to being discriminated. If you’re at that point, the logical position isn’t “I wish to be normal”, but “I wish society wasn’t so full of assholes and was more tolerant”.
The classic Ouroboros of virtue. You tried so hard to be an ally that you alienated the one you are sticking up for. They didn’t throw dirt on anyone, they gave their own opinion about a first hand experience and you had the audacity to tell them that they were wrong (“logically”, of course, so that it sounds like a fact that they can’t argue with). They said they like some aspects of it, to the point where they wouldn’t give it up given the choice and you straw-manned them with “I wish to be normal”. They introduced nuance into the conversation and you chose to interpret that as black and white dissent.
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No issues here, that attitude helps to solve misunderstandings.
Correct, I said so somewhere else.
I don’t want to invalidate anyone’s feelings, but everyone might have misdirected feelings sometimes. For instance, it is common among victims of abuse to hate themselves rather than the perpetrators of the abuse. If someone has an inherently debilitating condition, it’s perfectly natural for them to hate that condition. If someone has a condition that is, for the most part, neutral, but suffers social discrimination because of it, and places the origin of their pain in their condition, rather than in the discrimination, that is similar to an ethnic minority who suffers from racism growing into hating the fact that they’re an ethnic minority. If someone literally says “most of the struggles I have with the tism come from trying to live in a world designed by NTs”, that pretty much sounds like they do fit what I’m saying. Because autism is a wide spectrum, I’m aware that some people in it do actually have innate difficulties due to being on the spectrum that wouldn’t have emerged in a perfect environment, and if you read my original comment, you’ll see that I’m speaking in terms of possibilities and conditionals. But there is also a lot of autistic people who shouldn’t unload their loathing into being autistic, but into the fact that suffering discrimination through their whole lives has made them accrue so much trauma that they’ve developed a different debilitating condition.
That’s the case for at least some of the downvotes. There is also at least one user who was defending the narrative that every person on the spectrum should hate the condition.
Do you mean this in the sense that I didn’t initially mention I’m autistic, or in the sense of the dichotomy “being autistic vs having autism”? If it’s the former, that’s on their part for jumping into conclusions. If it’s the latter, they should read into it and accept the reasons that lead some people to prefer one kind of language over the other.
I appreciate your interest into having a clear understanding of the discussion. Have a good day.
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Yeah, I read it. Yeah, I’m autistic too but you didn’t lead with that so it wouldn’t have been proper for me to assume, now would it? As a brief aside, that makes the Ouroboros analogy even stronger so I’m not exactly sure what ethos you think that brings to the conversation. I disagree with your interpretation of @flerp@lemm.ee 's comment to the point where I would say it is careless bullying. They didn’t say anything wrong or try to push their agenda on anyone. They merely gave their own opinion based on their own experiences as they are entitled to do. Instead of accusing them with flimsy fallacy after fallacy, simply try to make your point. If you can’t make your point without shitting on someone else then re-evaluate if it is a point worth making. Flerp’s comment was basically just “I wouldn’t wish this on anyone” with about a paragraph of padding to apologize for and rationalize why it was ok to say that when others have had different experiences. They were clearly very conscientious about how it could be misinterpreted and you went ahead and misinterpreted it anyways. Slow down, read, be kind.
Please read the rules of this community before participating again. Aggressiveness is not welcome here.
Have you actually warned and removed the comment that said “no one likes being autistic” as well?
If you see a comment that breaks the rules, please report it and include which rule you believe it violated in the “reason” box. Don’t argue/reply to comments that break the rules, just ignore them or block the user after you’ve reported it.
I cannot report the comment of an user I have blocked, but you have had the chance to see it if you even put the minimum effort to check the context of my comment that you removed.
The comment of that user is in line with a social trend that aims to silence the voices of autism self advocates, to impose the discourse that autism is an ill that must be destroyed. If you had checked the other comments of that user, you would seen them speaking in behalf of parents of autistic people, rather than in behalf of autistic people themselves. Maintain the context and change the term: [No one likes being gay], [No one likes being black]. It is not difficult to see that it is hate speech. The fact that you warned someone getting angry at an user telling them that their identity ought not to exist, and actively or inadvertently promoting hate speech, but did nothing with the initial offending comments, makes me distrust the moderation of this community. Do you understand the issue?
Once again, you’re being rude and aggressive. You are now banned from this community.
But to address the accusations you’ve made against the moderation of this community; I replied to your comment immediately despite it being a really inconvenient time. I didn’t ignore you or just ban you, I took the time to explain the reporting process because you’re clearly upset/frustrated. Before I did that I did attempt to check the context. This is all I can see on mobile (remember it’s an inconvenient time):
Nothing in that comment breaks the rules. That is far more than the minimum effort in my opinion.
In the sidebar and the stickied post at the top of this community it’s explained that moderators are not the thought/morality police. My job is only to enforce the rules, not judge who is right in a discussion. I’m was not part of your discussion and I’m not interested in getting my involved outside of my obligations as a moderator. Your comments broke the rules, the other users didn’t, so you got a warning.
You’ve continued to break the rules so now you are banned from this community. I will only ban you for 3 months because this is clearly an emotive topic for you - we can all lose our head over issues that effect us personally. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that this is the case. Any further rule violations will result in an immediate and permanent ban.
I’ve been patient, prompt and fair, and I’ve put more time and effort into responding to you than I think would be expected. I assume you can complain about my moderation to the instance admins if you remain concerned.
Nobody likes being autistic for fuck sakes. It’s like saying don’t kick dirt on people who say they’re happy they lost their legs in an accident because their wheelchair is handier.
The idea that people with autism is some kind of trade-off with benefits is a Rain Man fallacy. Whatever weird quirks come with it that are endearing, a thousand awful things make it hard to live with.
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