• athos77@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    And on a more realistic note, Ukraine can only continue to fight as long as they have effective weapons, in large numbers - numbers too large for it’s treasury to handle.

    They have to get the arms from somewhere. Their best bet right now is the West, which has large amounts of various weapons designed to fight the Russians.

    If they lost the support of the West, it’s possible they could cobble together enough materiel from other sources - countries that would welcome Russian weakness, or welcome Russia’s distraction, or see Ukraine as a buffer, or who simply want influence in the area. They could cobble together an arms supply from those sources, but the supply would be erratic, be less designed for interoperability, and would likely run out faster than the Ukrainians’ need. I mean, even the US is struggling to supply enough munitions to Ukraine, I’m not sure who can keep up with the needed supply if the US steps out.

    • theodewere@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      that is not an Army “being supported by” anyone… it exists. it was armed and trained by NATO, that’s correct… it is basically a NATO force now… deal with it or not, they’re going to show you…

      there is no force anywhere in Europe that can stop that Army now… it doesn’t matter if you understand that or not… they don’t need help…

      • athos77@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        You can have the best, most elite fighting force on the face of the planet. They still need weapons, they still need ammo, they still need grenades and rockets and artillery shells, their weapons and tanks and APC’s and drones still need servicing and replacements.

        In short, Ukraine needs an entire war-oriented production line and logistics/supply system. They have one now, courtesy of the EU, the US, and Ukraine’s other allies. A significant percentage of that military aid came from the US. The US is interested in helping Ukraine regain it’s full sovereignty including Crimea, and protecting it’s European allies. It has absolutely no interest in or appetite for, any real invasion of Russian soil. The US and the EU have repeatedly told Ukraine that Ukraine cannot use any materiel supplied by the US, the EU, or European nations, in any attack on Russia itself.

        Ukraine cannot ‘win’ an invasion of Russia with the weapons it currently has: they don’t have enough weapons or anywhere near enough ammo to do it. They may have enough for quick strike forces, but they certainly don’t have enough men to actually occupy Russia. Your dream of Ukrainian tanks rolling down Russian highways is just that - a dream.

        As for your assertion that “that is not an Army “being supported by” anyone […] they don’t need help”: here is a list of military retirement that the US has sent so far - it doesn’t even invite what Ukraine has received from other countries or companies. Please explain to me how Ukraine, even with the best army in the world, would win it’s war without the weapons and ammo supplied by it’s allies. And again, this is just a list of the US military aid, not the EU, not Australia or any of the other countries and companies sending supplies. U.S. security assistance to Ukraine between January 20, 2020, and June 27, 2023:

        [Please see my reply to this comment, it’s a long list]

        • theodewere@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          you’re working really hard… good luck with that…

          In short, Ukraine…

          i love that you actually used the words, “in short”… just to demonstrate what a troll you are…

        • athos77@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          10,000 Javelin anti-armor systems

          70,000 other anti-armor systems and

          munitions

          1,700 Stinger anti-aircraft systems

          4,000 TOW missiles

          35,000 grenade launchers and small arms,

          with ammunition

          100,000 sets of body armor and helmets

          Thousands of night-vision devices,

          surveillance systems, thermal imagery

          systems, optics, and laser rangefinders

          C-4 and other explosives

          Explosive-ordnance-disposal equipment

          M18A1 Claymore mines

          Anti-tank mines

          Mine-clearing equipment

          Obstacle-emplacement equipment

          Medical supplies

          Field equipment, cold-weather gear,

          generators, and spare parts

          Chemical, biological, radiological, and

          nuclear protective equipment

          18 armored bridging systems

          160 155mm Howitzers and ammunition

          72 105mm Howitzers and ammunition

          47 120mm mortar systems

          10 82mm mortar systems

          67 81mm mortar systems

          58 60mm mortar systems

          203mm, 152mm, 130mm, 122mm, 120mm,

          and 25mm ammunition

          38 HIMAR systems

          60,000 122mm Grad rockets

          Precision-guided rockets

          Rocket launchers and ammunition

          154 Bradley infantry fighting vehicles

          4 Bradley Fire Support Team vehicles

          31 Abrams tanks

          45 T-72B tanks (via the Czech Republic)

          125 Stryker armored personnel carriers

          300 M113 armored personnel carriers

          250 M1117 armored security vehicles

          200 armored medical-treatment vehicles

          500 MRAP vehicles

          125mm, 120mm, and 105mm tank

          ammunition

          2,000 Humvees

          354 tactical vehicles

          100 light tactical vehicles

          68 trucks

          124 trailers

          10 command post vehicles

          30 ammunition support vehicles

          6 armored utility trucks

          8 logistics support vehicle

          89 heavy fuel tankers and 105 fuel trailers

          1 Patriot air defense battery and munitions

          8 NASAM systems

          20 Avenger air defense systems

          HAWK air defense systems and munitions

          Laser-guided rocket systems

          RIM-7 missiles

          Antiaircraft guns and ammunition

          Equipment to integrate with and sustain

          Ukraine’s systems

          9 anti-drone gun trucks and ammunition

          10 anti-drone laser-guided rocket systems

          High-speed anti-radiation missiles

          (HARMs)

          Precision aerial munitions

          6,000 Zuni aircraft rockets (could function

          as air defense)

          7,000 Hydra-70 aircraft rockets

          20 Mi-17 helicopters

          ScanEagle drones

          Puma drones

          JUMP drones

          CyberLux K8 drones

          Switchblade drones

          Phoenix Ghost drones

          ALTIUS-600 drones (can also be used for

          surveillance)

          Munitions

          2 Harpoon coastal defense systems

          62 coastal and riverine patrol boats

          Unmanned coastal defense vessels

          Port and harbor security equipment

          4 satellite communications antennas

          2 radars for unmanned aerial systems

          21 air surveillance radars

          70 counter-artillery and counter-

          mortar radars

          20 multi-mission radars

          Tactical secure communications systems

          Counter air defense capability

          Counter–unmanned aerial systems

          Electronic jamming equipment

          SATCOM terminals and services

          Commercial satellite imagery services