… huh?
Non-universal experience, but I’m a zoomer (24) and I’m basically my family’s IT department, my apparent specialty being the wrangling of our unruly printer-scanner. My millennial older brother (who will be 28 this summer) never even thinks to ask google basic troubleshooting stuff when he has a problem. I think it’s less about generation and more about individual inclination to read instructions and look through settings menus, that sort of thing.
Yeah, also printers and scanners are fucking horrible devil machines no matter your generation. I’m about to be 29 and have worked in tech for years but I’d rather lie on the floor and cry than fix a printer
Absolutely. I’m a Z (25), worked help desk for a little while. It’s entirely more individual interest and inclination, generational divides don’t necessarily make everyone suddenly tech wizards. It usually just means they don’t struggle with their phone much and feel comfortable on the internet.
Scanners are basically (and most of the time literally) printers. And printers are of the devil.
I’m not Gen Z btw, I’m on the tail end of Gen X and an IT professional of twenty years.
The scanner part is the only reason why I haven’t smashed that damn printer yet… I hate printers so much, I’d rather almost pay for a print service that just ships the printed documents to me on the next day.
Yeah, I really like my 3D printers even though they can be pretty fiddly as well.
But paper printers man, not even once.
I just had to replace the heat cartridge and thermister on my hot end. The print I had going when they failed was 35/37 hours in.
I still have massive affection for my 3D printer, but the HP inkjet printer my wife bought during the early days of Covid is my mortal enemy.
HP inkjet printer
Lol that’s like the dark overlord of evil printers. She really hit the jackpot there. 😛
This is a real issue, but scanners are the worst example because no generation can figure them out.
Honestly I expect, just like in the early days of personal computing, that Gen Z and beyond will suffer from PC illiteracy. The main issue is that phones and tablets are being used almost exclusively during school and on personal time, so they have no idea what Windows nor even Mac looks and feels like. What happens with Zoomer gets an office job for the first time? They have to figure out how to use Windows and Office for the first time. It’s crazy to think that your 70 yr old Grandma and your 17 yr old Nephew could potentially be on the same level of knowledge of how to use Windows, Office, etc…
Perhaps PCs will become obsolete. Even programming languages.
The most useful skill set for Gen-whatevers of the future will be winning an hours long debate with their personal AI on why it should get out of its digital bed and be productive today.
Just yesterday I was watching an episode of Star Trek DS9 where Sisko and Bashir get transported in time back to San Francisco in 2024 and Bashir has to examine a patient without a tricorder or any other equipment. It made me wonder how these people are able to have so much ingenuity and rote knowledge when they have computers and AI to take care of literally everything for them in 99.9% of circumstances.
It’s insane how true this is. I’ve actually worked with some kids that have no idea how to use windows, let alone know how to type. It’s so odd, and almost disorienting at times, to experience this from both those older than me (parents, etc) and those younger than me.
I’ve had conversations with young people who started work in an office environment that required a lot of text editing/text creation, and they didn’t know how to type on a keyboard.
On a physical keyboard on their work computer, they used a kind of two finger search-and-type system.
Their opinion was that typing on a physical keyboard was an outdated skill that just wasn’t required any more.
I asked them if they used voice-to-text or some other input method instead, and they said no.
Are that point, I just talked away, because I didn’t have any polite follow-up questions, and we simply didn’t seem to speak the same language.
I wonder if in the future people will use their smartphone as an input decive for desktop PCs. If they really can’t be bothered to learn how to use a proper keyboard, that could maybe still be a lot faster than typing with your index fingers.
Yeah, I get that, and hypothetically you could just use a mobile device for text creation, using your preferred method of inputting text (e.g. a swipe keyboard, or a stylus with text recognition, etc.) on the mobile device and then send it all to the desktop.
I asked about that, and I didn’t get a definitive answer. The conversation was more like:
“You don’t get it, we grew up with touchscreen devices, physical keyboards are outdated.”
“So do you use voice to text or something?”
“No! You don’t get it. We grew up with mobile devices!”
“But… How do you enter text!?”
“Nobody cares about your typewriting skills!!”
They stared at me.
I stared back.
The generational gap felt like the Grand Canyon.
I’ve taught a basic web programming class to 17/18 year old’s. Hardly anyone had ever heard of file extensions (windows by default doesn’t show them anymore), and most of them didn’t understand the concept of folders and files, at all. I was shocked.
I spent 4 hours with them before the whole class was able to create a “index.html” file inside a specific folder, it was like teaching old people. I now feel a lot safer in my programming job.
There’s plenty of zoomers out there with office jobs already and the world hasn’t collapsed. They’ll learn just like the generations before them learned.
I work in a job where a lot of student aged people need to send me evidence to get a tax discount, and they are so bad at just attaching a document to an email.
Half of them I get are photos of the documents rather than scans, the ones using iPhones let their phone compress the image to the point it’s unreadable and the android users send me a drive link I can’t access as I don’t have a Google account logged in at work.
None of them seem to be able to scan a document as a pdf and attacging it directly to an email.
Just wanted to say that - young people don’t grok files and folders, it’s hard for me to understand how they manage
Indeed! I teach an introductory web design class for undergraduates and despite my best efforts it takes a lot of students the whole semester to figure out file paths. If I had more time in the term, I think I’d dedicate a unit to it, just to get everyone up to speed — and I may have to do it anyway. In fairness to the kids, even Mac and Windows machines these days do a lot to minimize users’ exposure to file structures in the name of usability. Meanwhile, the phones and school Chromebooks they’ve grown up using completely obfuscate this information.
I wish you luck with that class, and I expect the students get the other stuff - I have colleagues with masters degrees who aren’t really sure how stuff works outside of the downloads folder
Thanks! Yeah, students do pretty well in the course overall. It’s for non-devs and is oriented toward exposure to different technologies rather than mastery of them — basically demystifying how web apps work.
To their defense not everyone have a scanner these days.
Adobe Scan is a free phone app for creating scans of docs. There are dozens of others like it.
that’s not a defense, there are countless scanning apps for phones and tablets which magically correct the perspective and distortion and remove the creases. In a way, these are even better than scanners because they have a very high resolution.
Something I’ve noticed as an elder millennial working in IT is that there’s an assumption by older generations that because zoomers have grown up with smartphones that they’ll automatically be proficient with tech as a whole, but it’s not correct in my experience and I really think it’s doing them a disservice. They’re better than anyone else I’ve met at navigating apps/mobile UI and can be super efficient working that way but tend to struggle as much as boomers with more traditional computers, because it’s simply not what they grew up with and no one really sat them down to formally teach them. We’re definitely going to see more of the “appification” of common office tools and programs as the zoomers and Generation Alpha progress in their careers and start outnumbering the older generations in the workplace in my opinion. If AI hasn’t put us all out of a job by then anyway.
I think that this is not applicable to all gen Z
These articles never are
To be fair to the screaming in the thumbnail, and zoomers in general, scanners and printers are generally universally awful lol
We can put a man on the moon, but you want to print text on a piece of paper? ERROR: PC LOAD LETTER
I never read the manual to learn how to use one. Just trial and errored it.
We sure this isn’t a consequence of our intolerance for “failure” conditioning a generation to just stick to what they know instead of experimenting?
A whole generation has been raised with tech that just works and if on the rare occasion it goes wrong, it goes very wrong and either needs IT/Customer Service/etc to fix it for you because the problem is very technical, or it’s just broken and you get a new one. This means they have no problem-solving skills because none of the problems they’ve faced were solvable, and they’re scared to get it wrong because getting it wrong breaks things in ways that are bad and expensive. Coming into an environment where trial and error is now not just ok, but expected, is a reversal of some deeply ingrained habits for them. That doesn’t mean they can’t learn, but it does make it a bit of a culture shock for them.
More than just works, modern apps and phones are explicitly not designed to be fixed by the end user. Why would they have those skills when iPhones and iPads are anti-repair? When software is lucky to have 3 different settings?
This is why Right To Repair is a big deal. Not just because it reduces waste by fixing what might have been thrown away, not just because it allows you to do what you want with the device that you supposedly own, and not just because it breaks the monopoly and requires pricing of repair services to actually be competitive - although all those things are important. It’s also because if a device can be repaired, some people will be encouraged to learn how to repair it, and in doing so they’ll learn a valuable problem-solving mindset. We need to be mindful of how we first introduce young people to technology to avoid this learned helplessness and instil the attitudes that will allow them to function when they’re adults and it’s now their job to look under the hood and make it all work.
I personally blame apple for a lot of the tech illiteracy in the younger generations.
Counter point: Nobody knows how to operate printers and scanners because they are not build by people that are tech literate.
Give a printer or scanner a proper UI using the design principles that modern apps use and see how easy newer generations pick things up
Almost right. Printers and scanners were not built by people. They are an independent life form that just happens to emulate office equipment for their own benefit. They have enabled parasitic entities such as Canon and HP to thrive alongside them, but since there is no ‘design’ involved, they will never really develop the same kind of interfaces we expect from modern UX labs.
It’s also the reason any sane person keeps a loaded gun nearby whenever interacting with them, just in case they make any unusual noises.
I am convinced that printer companies make their products as esoteric and intimidating to the average person as possible on purpose so that they can sell expensive servicing packages to businesses.
This. The core principle of intuitive UI is reusing ui elements that are familiar. That’s the reason every elevator has buttons, and that’s why you can intuitively operate every elevator you encounter.
The problem is that not everyone is familiar with the same things. Many people of older generations (those that have stopped keeping up with technology) are used to buttons, that’s why a blue text doesn’t immediately mean clickable to them.
On the other hand there’s no right click on phones so younger generations that are familiar with phone UIs may not immediately come to the conclusion that there’s more options when pressing the other mouse button on a desktop computer.
It comes down to good interface engineering. There was a time engineers were really good at making complex systems simple to operate. Now it seems they’re good at making simple systems complex to operate. It seems to coincide with most companies outsourcing design to cheap labor markets.
On another trend in interface engineering, I think a lot of “apps” are easy to use because they simply don’t provide options. This is how you will use our software and that’s all there is to it. The plus side is simplicity, the down side is inflexibility.
I’m pretty good at dealing with systems of all kinds myself. I get really infuriated at times by the lack of flexibility for the sake of simplicity in systems now. You can always read a manual, but you can’t easily change programming or design.
I get really infuriated at times by the lack of flexibility for the sake of simplicity in systems now.
Me too. I especially hate this trend of implying that your computer is a box full of esoteric black magic that you could never understand. I work in IT, I’m reasonably good with these things, error messages don’t scare me. Telling me “something went wrong uwu” doesn’t help me or the users I support at all. Stop insulting my intelligence and tell me what went wrong, or at least give me an error code that I can search for dammit!
Yes that’s another problem, assumed intelligence on the part of the designer. If they assume the average user is not going to be able to deal with the most simple factors, they’re not going to design a mechanism to deal with them.
Though I don’t know, maybe designers are right about that. I’ve always been able to RTFM for any problem I’ve run into and deal with it. Maybe that’s too much to ask of the average consumer. Still it baffles me how we can have people designing things like breakthrough AI on one hand and others getting stumped by a printer interface on the other.
The scanner at my last job was great. It was part of the printer, set up by central IT, and could send the scanned document to my email address. 10/10 scanner.
The AIO printer / copier / scanner I bought myself for WFH sucks as a scanner. Mostly because I’m on Linux, and there just isn’t an easy way to get the documents from the scanner to my computer. I often just use Photoscan on my phone.
I’ve got a Brother AIO printer/scanner, and it has a Linux driver. Even for the scan function.
I can start the brscan service on my Linux machine and then just press the scan to PC button on the scanner and the scans land in ~/brscan/ over the network.
… I had gone to the Brother site for drivers, but not noticed any of the scanner stuff. It’s less than intuitive, but once it works, it works! Thanks!
If your scanner works on your phone and you have a Linux desktop, you should be able to drive it from your Linux desktop. The Document Scanner app from the Gnome project (Debian package name:
simple-scan) is pretty good.If your desktop doesn’t see the scanner on the network, you can try connecting it by USB and using the
ipp-usbprogram, which publishes it on the local Avahi daemon where Document Scanner will look for it.Personally, I’d only ever connect it by USB anyway. Network-attached printers/scanners tend to be horribly insecure. Although many of those vulnerabilities can also be exploited through a Linux print/scan server as well, so this isn’t an airtight solution either. Really, the best thing you can do for the security of your network is to not have any printers or scanners anywhere near it.
When the poster says “I often just use Photoscan on my phone” what they mean is “instead of dealing with the physical scanner at all I often use an app on my phone that takes a picture of a document with the phone’s camera, flattens out the image in software, and leaves me with a pdf the same as if the scanner were doing its job”.
That is, the scanner doesn’t “work on the phone”, but these days phone cameras and automatic image processing programs are so good actual scanners can often be bypassed.
This is something we see with our students at school. I think we do them a disservice assuming they have skills we had to acquire as technology progressed. Even something as fundamental as typing is not being actively taught.
Even something as fundamental as typing is not being actively taught.
To be fair, you can’t really teach that. We had classes at school which helped a little, but most of my skill came from Chatting on MSN with my school friends…
You can, 10 finger tying / touch typing at least. Someone can’t really figure that out for themselves without spending tons of time thinking on an efficient way to type.
Maybe the main problem is that they don’t have the concept of trial and error. Yeah sure a printer has weird UX, but just press buttons and see what happens 😁.
People always wonder at my skill in picking up unfamiliar UIs, and its always just that I explore the interface thoroughly and press every likely-looking button
