- cross-posted to:
- android@lemdro.id
- cross-posted to:
- android@lemdro.id
Fairphone’s latest repairable device is for people who hate saying goodbye to an old smartphone more than they like buying a new one.
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As someone who knows a good portion of the Fairphone staff in person, and knows they have a great atmosphere and are mostly great people: Fuck you @Fairphone for leaving my perfectly working FP1 dead in the water without SW updates, and removing the spare parts for the FP2 from the store around the time my FP2 needed them (USB charging port, battery), and for making every new fairphone larger, not offering a SINGLE phone in a proper pocket size (like the FP1).
For users who can live with the tablet-size of modern smartphones: Yes, repairability and longterm support for more recent phones appears not too bad, certainly better than most competitors, but still - if you are someone like me, who treats a phone well, you can not expect to be able to find spare parts by the time wear & tear from normal use will make it necessary.
If you can’t buy parts a decade after something is purchased, the repairability is a gimmick, a sales trick.
I’m not making a joke, that’s the truth of it, imo.
That’s how old the fairphone is.
My lgg3 is a year younger, and it’s a pain in the ass to find a real battery, but LG didn’t sell the thing with the idea of users being able to repair and upgrade. You expect an LG phone to have poor parts availability after a decade.
Like you said, a phone under normal use should last a decade plus. Barring failure of the main board, which is kinda where replacing that part means it’s a new phone rather than a repaired phone, if you’re still left with a device that you can’t get parts for, it’s landfill waste. Kinda puts a damper on sustainability as a factor.
Fairphone is a gimmick, and it always has been. A good gimmick to be sure, but a gimmick.
Sadly yes, I like the company philosophy, and I understand that - with regards to device size - due to them being small, they can only run 1 product line, no parallel small phone. But what I do not understand then is how they feel they have to release a new model every 2 years, which also drives switching the production lines for older model spare parts. That’s not sustainability in my eyes. I was severely disappointed after Fairphone advocated for repairability with “the most sustainable smartphone is your old one, if you continue using it”, and still having my Fairphone 1(!) in tip top condition (the only part that broke was the power button, which I repaired myself with an iFixit tool & a soldering iron) but no longer being able to use it because SW support is discontinued. I was even more disappointed when my FP2 finally started having problems charging because the USB port was becoming wobbly / loose, and not being able to purchase a new bottom module because “sorry, we’re on FP4 now, only spare parts we still ship are FP3 and higher”.
So now I am on shiftphone 6mq - which is not necessarily smaller, but might be usable with free OS + docking station sooner than a FP ever will.
As you say - a good gimmick, but a gimmick nonetheless.
No Lineage support for Fairphones?
I always think about auto repair when repairability comes up. I could still get parts for my 30yo jeep. Hell people make parts for collector vehicles, even 90 year old Model A cars.
Now, you might say modern cars are less repairable but I can also get software to diagnose and configure my 5yo Toyota 4Runner. And if I upgrade some parts it doesn’t void the warranty because of consumer friendly laws.
Tech would be very different if it followed these patterns.
is a smartphone not a gimmick to begin with.
That’s interesting. Can parts be found on other resellers or sites or is Fair phone the only suppliers for these parts?
This kinda defeats the purpose of buying one.
From other people you would only get used parts. To be fair, the Fairphone community is quite good and supportive, and there are people there that collect broken phones from users, salvage them for parts & repair phones for users. But if you would like to procure original, new parts, you should not count on the FP company to provide any beyond the support duration that they promise in writing (not sure what that is right now).
Why would anyone ever expect any company to provide more support than they provide in writing? They are still trying to make a profit and not supporting a more than 10 year old device is perfectly reasonable. They only shipped 60,000 of the thing and it’s got a GB of RAM. The second model, the 2 still has parts available ~9 years on. I’m really not seeing the issue here.
I have a feeling you did not read my comments. The second model does NOT have parts available, that’s just plain wrong. They’ve been out of stock for more than 3 years.
And as for the why, that’s because not everyone is a capitalist piece of shit, and that’s exactly the image that Fairphone is aiming for, and therefore when they advertise for sustainability, not supporting old devices is a dumb move.
Companies and people who put profit first are a cancer to this world.
If I pay about a 100% premium for the service, over a comparable phone, I expect service.
My understanding is that they alone can’t give driver updates, which is why they choose a chip for FP5 which will get supported longer. (That doesn’t explain regular software not getting updates)
I assume you looked elsewhere for Fairphone 1 parts?
You mean FP2 parts? I could have gotten them only from the Fairphone community. But I spent some time waiting for an opportunity where we would have met anyways, and I found no battery replacement, because tjat was the first component in most FP2s to fail (apart from a Display problem which was early on though and fixed under warranty)
Same here, they lost me after fp1 which didn’t receive security updates anymore. FP2 had this weird rubber band that got loose quickly with everyone I know who had one. Stopped following after that.
Ultimately the problem is Google. The minimum system requirements for Android keep going up with every release and Google stops providing updates to older releases at some point (typically 5 years after that version was initially released). That effectively puts an upper bound on the lifespan of any phone as at some point the phones CPU and memory aren’t good enough to run the latest Android version at acceptable speeds. The lower end a phone was at original manufacturing the faster this all happens as well.
Apple is just as bad (far worse in some ways).
I’ve tried to find a solution, and the best I’ve seen is Linux phone, but that comes with some major downsides that are going to be deal breakers for most people. The two biggest ones are that battery life is abysmal unless you enable hibernation, but doing so, at least a year or so ago when I looked into it, disables your ability to receive calls while the phone is in hibernation. And secondly that NFC essentially doesn’t work, or at least not for anything you care about like being able to make payments.
I tried a Pinephone with postmarketOS and I concur with the battery life - I could never use the pinephone practically, because in standby laying in the shelf, the battery is dead in about 30 hours.
I so wished there was a Linux distribution with proper phone support & tuned to sustain the battery power, but usable with a docking station.
My dream is to no longer have to carry a laptop anywhere, just my phone, and a keyboard (if needed) and mouse, and a USB-C hub with HDMI cable, mouse & keyboard USB ports, then plug in that phone to a hotel TV or a monitor at a business partner’s place and work directly on the phone.
Laptop stays reserved for stuff that requires more computing power than LibreOffice.
Absolutely, Pinephone is an awesome project for tinkering, but it’s not a practical alternative to just buying a cheap phone.
A pity since I love the convergence package + phone, but battery is dead before I have used the phone…
Well, with fp1 specifically Google was not the main culprit. The phone used a chip (I think by mediatek?) and the producer didn’t publish the drivers. The Fairphone team promised to reverse engineer that for a while and at some point just said they won’t do it after all. That was the reason you couldn’t install other images on it, not cpu speed
The FP2 rubber casing was discontinued for that reason, but the cheap plastic shells also broke quickly (well - from falls, mostly :D so they did accomplish what they are there for: protect the phone itself from breaking). I think beyond the initial rubber shell (which also disconnected from the harder plastic shell for me) I went through 3-4 hard shells, all of which I got for free from FP though on community meetings @ the FP HQ.
Yeah, but I’m not convinced by their approach anymore as a sustainable solution. Luckily the phone feature race has mostly come to a halt, so there is a chance now for free OS options to come up (which is what we’re seeing at the moment).
The part about tracking where the material comes from us good in principle, but mostly as a proof of concept so regulators can increase pressure on big manufacturers (if Fairphone can do it, apple/Samsung should also be able to). But regulators don’t regulate, unfortunately
Regulators gonna
regulatetake bribes, I guess
Nokia has decent phones dirt cheap that you can repair yourself, and you can buy spare parts cheap too, and it runs completely vanilla Android, with good multi year upgrade policy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh-7sMEDxyw
My wife has her eye on a Nokia G42, and it has both Micro SD slot and minijack. So you can use a 1TB MicroSD and laugh all the way to the bank at those who bought an S24 Ultra with 128GB 😂 🤪 😆 😜 😋
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=kh-7sMEDxyw
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Fuck them for removing the headphone jack, it makes no sense at all
It makes perfect sense. They wanted to sell their own branded ear buds.
They have literally an explanation for this on their website. You might disagree, but saying “it makes no sense”…makes no sense.
Also, they discontinued the earbuds and still no jack on FP5, so the idea that “they wanted to sell their own buds” doesn’t seem to be likely.
It makes no sense to me, their whole deal is sustainability, by removing the headphone jack it forces me to buy Bluetooth headphones that all have batteries in them and are presumably not up to Fairphone standards of sustainability.
And saying we’re just following market trends sounds like a shitty explanation to me. I have the 3, I’ll use it for as long as it works but after that no Fairphone for me.
USB-C earbuds exist. No one is “forcing” you to do anything.
Which is still having to buy a second set of earbuds/headphones when there’s no need for it. Or buy a separate dongle (a major pain in the ass over time).
This is not “sustainability” friendly design.
Headphone jacks also exist, so I won’t be buying this phone.
I’m surprised they discontinued their buds. Thank you for pointing that out.
They’re still selling a 250 Euro Bluetooth headset with the phone as a option
punish them by not buying their phone
I see so many be “angry” at them and yet they still buy the phone
I have the 4 and haven’t missed it once 🤷
That seems to be most people, but for me it’s a deal breaker.
Good for you.
Maybe the best part of the FP5 that is talked about little is that the main SoC is not a consumer grade Qualcomm chip, but an industrial grade one that will get driver and firmware upgrades for a much longer time than the consumer ones.
In addition it is fairly similar to other slightly older Qualcomm chips that already have main-line Linux kernel support, so the prospects of running Mobian or PostmarketOS on it are quite good.
The phone is great and things can be replaced easily. My only issue with the phone is it’s price. It’s quite high compared to phones with similar specs.
It’s because they try to ethically source as much of the phone as possible, and go out of their way to pay fair wages and ensure no forced labour is used in the supply chain.
Unfortunately that adds significant cost.
Unfortunately that adds significant cost.
That’s not unfortunate, that’s logical. Unfortunately, other companies are allowed to exploit humans and the environment for more profit despite lower prices.
It’s amazing when you realize that modern civilization as we know it depends on numerous layers of slavery, child labor, and general worker exploitation.
Also don’t forget the “externalized” costs of massive and irreversible environmental damage!
Yeah I feel all it takes is 5% of mankind to have evil / selfish intentions, to corrupt the system
They only harvest from sustainable phone forests. 👍
Yea that’s what happens if the company at least tries to make it repairable and not made by exploited people.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
There are those who are happy to be in the market for a new device, who delight in discovering how phones have improved since they last upgraded and who can’t wait to reap the benefits of better low-light camera performance, a prettier display, and more premium build quality.
They’re the people who respond with despair when they’re told that their phone has reached the end of its software support period or that it’s no longer cost-effective to repair a seemingly minor hardware fault.
But now the phone comes equipped with technological advancements such as a modern OLED display with a high refresh rate, more robust waterproofing, and a higher-capacity battery.
To that end, there are actually more individually accessible modules this time around, which is nice if you, say, only need to replace one rear camera that’s broken or swap out a faulty SIM card tray.
That’s better than the IP54 rating of the Fairphone 4 (which was still resilient enough for me to use throughout an exceptionally rainy hike), but it still falls short of allowing you to fully immerse the device in water like you can do with an IP68-rated phone.
In low light, the phone produces superficially nice shots, but peer a little closer, and it looks like this is the work of aggressive processing, with a lot of fine detail smoothed out and colors artificially boosted.
The original article contains 1,968 words, the summary contains 230 words. Saved 88%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Less about what comes in the box and more about what you get over the years sounds like most video games now.
The FairPhone 4 had a screen brightness bug that made the phone (mostly) unusable outside in the sun that lasted from Feb 2023 to Oct 2023.
Since the Android 12 update, the FP4 has a cooling feature that reduces the maximum brightness even when the slider is all the way to the right.
This occurs when the phone heats up to ~40 degrees at the CPU, which is not a lot at all.
https://forum.fairphone.com/t/random-screen-dimming-while-brightness-slider-stays-at-100-after-a12-update/93195They will have to work very hard to make me consider buying my next phone from them.
They do seem to listen to their users and learn from their mistakes though - FP4 was often criticized for the short firmware support offered from Qualcomm. FP5 will have Qualcomm’s extended firmware support for its SoC.
https://www.fairphone.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Press_release_Fairphone_5.pdfWhy are you posting an article from september 2023?
I’m in the market for a phone and love this idea, but 8x digital zoom without optical zoom options in 2024 is a non-starter for me.
Wow a site that doesn’t fill up 90% of your phone’s viewport with ads? Color me impressed
why wouldn’t you use AdBlock?
No offence but I don’t think this phone will be any good in a few years because of the CPU choice.
If it’s already sluggish now, what will it be like in 5 years? Unusable.
I’m typing this from a smartphone with Snapdragon 765g, a basically older version of the 778g. The 778g is better in every way compared to the many years older 765g and my phone does not feel sluggish in any way for my use cases: messaging, phone calls, video calls, media consumption, but no gaming. For me the 778g would be the perfect chip (like the 765g was): a perfect compromise between battery life, capabilities and price.
It’s not about the processor, it’s about the official software support. Some people don’t want to have to flash a custom ROM to get decent performance, some people want good performance out of the box from the official software
How is the CPU choice and official software support related? Genuine question, I don’t follow smartphone tech news, I just look up stuff whenever I or someone in my family needs a new phone.
The comment I was replying to said that this Fairphone was going to be sluggish because of the CPU choice, with which I disagreed because I’m basically using an older CPU from that CPU family without issues, so I know that it doesn’t have to be sluggish. Not in a Fairphone though, but in a Motorola edge, so the software will indeed be different.
sometimes a phone with a good CPU performs poorly because of poorly optimized software
Often people on the internet will respond to that “well just find a custom ROM and a custom kernel, flash that and it’ll be butter smooth!”
So I was assuming that you were implying that “only the CPU spec matters because you can always flash any software” and to that I respond that maybe some people don’t want to flash aftermarket software
I’m writing this comment on a Fairphone 5 right now and it doesn’t feel sluggish at all.
It doesn’t seem to me like the increased performance of phones has had much effect on the actual experience for a while if gaming or content creation is not done on the phone. As a daily driver I think this phone will last me a while.
I mostly can’t get over paying more for worse specs. It doesn’t have to feel bad now but with 8 years of support it could very easily not feel good in the future. It’s a $760 phone that benchmarks close to the Samsung A54 a $400 phone.
The selling point is the ethical value of the phone but it’ll never top how much waste buying a used phone saves.
Other phones can be much cheaper because they don’t care about slavery or child labor in their production line and don’t support their phones that long
But iPhones get long support, pixels now get 7, and S24 get 7.
Fairphone themselves even admits they can’t fix everything in production so a phone that was about to be waste is more fair.
If they built their phones in Germany or something I could accept the price but they’re made in China where labor standards aren’t exactly great.
Yes they are obviously not perfect but they are at least trying to change something, while the massive cooperations just dont acknowledge that problem at all.
And the updates thing: Apple controls the ecosystem and are a huge company. They dont have to worry about manufactures for a processor or other parts not supporting it longer and stop giving it driver updates. Same with Samsung and especially Google. They are huge companies that can basically do what they want. They will be able to get a hold of drivers and firmware because they are a huge customer to the manufactures. And they only just started promising those long updates. Meanwhile Fairphone has been trying for years to support their devices that long and had to struggle because they are not a massive cooperation that can influence manufactures like that to the point they now dont use normal consumer grade chips but ones with extended support.
Do they pay you to “yeah but” for them or are you just a simp?
No headphone jack means fairphone now encourage Bluetooth earbuds and electronic waste.
They’re dead to me.
what phone do you use?
So “Occasionally sluggish performance” now at launch? Surely it won’t be much better 5 years from now
