Y’all organizing at a local and national level? I have major major issues with the current system but unless there’s clear actionable things to do now, then all this post does is discourage change and voting against actual fascists.
Thank you, I get very burnt out repeating how both sidesism has fucked USA over.
Yep
Start/join a food not bombs, help your neighbours clear their outdoor space/get to an appointment/fix their computer/whatever your skillset and time allows, contribute to a strike fund, spread propaganda online or on the streets via posters stickers and flyers, those and so much more are “clear actionable things to do now”. That is what revolution looks like, it isn’t all blowing up pipelines and setting police stations on fire, it starts with you and your community. Start with solidarity instead of expecting others to produce a ready made revolution for you, and within the existing system? That’s completely missing the point…
Local level and state level are achievable goals and align with the game theory presented in our government.
Anyone thinking nationally does not recognize the scale of the problem they’re dealing with.
I’m a big fan of direct action. Find your local representative and leave a burning bag of dog shit on their door step. I’ll leave ringing the doorbell up to your discretion.
Yes, if you vote on issues that matter to you, things change.
That is voting.
That is why Trump was booted out of office. Because of voting.
Trump didn’t get into office because he got the most votes.
In fact voting as important as it is doesn’t actually decide what the government does. There was a whole Princeton study about this recently that your vote essentially has no impact on what the government chooses to do.
Voting is largely a public demonstration of how much we are willing to tolerate the government turning on us in any given year. The fewer people that show up to vote the more quickly we march towards fascist dystopia.
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My comment is not long enough for you to have misquoted me twice. You can literally read the entire comment while you are responding to it even if you’re on mobile.
Yes voting is important, but it doesn’t have the impact we often think it does.
The people we vote for aren’t necessarily going to be able to make policies we want, That’s not the reason why voting is so important right now. It might be one day, and I hold out hope that if I keep voting for democracy, it’ll happen.
Voting right now is basically an up or down vote on “should we keep seeking democracy?”
The Republican party is perfectly willing to make policies we do not want, and their end goal is actually the end of democracy.
So although our votes won’t necessarily compel the government to take actions we want it to take, they can help prevent it from taking actions we would like it to not take.
It’s a shitty deal, but considering the alternative…
Technically, he did get the most votes once. It’s just that electoral votes aren’t representative of the popular vote, which he has never gotten because he is an unlikeable wannabe dictator.
Yes, in a democracy the elected government will not be the government that literally everyone voted for.
No, voting in the United States is not largely a public demonstration on how much we are willing to tolerate the government.
Yes, the fewer people that show up to vote, the more quickly we march towards fascist dystopia: exactly my point and exactly anathema to your false assertion that voting does not matter.
Well then it’s a good thing I never asserted that voting doesn’t matter.
“your vote essentially has no impact on what the government chooses to do”
Don’t want you to strain yourself reading your own directly previous comment that you then contradicted in the subsequent paragraph.
I also went on to explain why just because you don’t choose what the government does, doesn’t mean your vote is irrelevant.
It’s also not me making that claim It’s Princeton University that had a particularly well cited study showing that your vote actually does not influence the policy decisions of lawmakers.
Your vote is about preventing the creation of policy that is even worse. It’s not about enabling the creation of policy that is good. We are not at the phase of our relationship with our government where we can make them do good things. If we don’t keep working towards that we will backslide into fascism.
You have the wrong expectations if you think your vote is going to tell the government what to do. We’re just not there yet. You still have to vote If you’d like to get there one day.
“Well then it’s a good thing I never asserted that”.
Nobody has these expectations you are talking about except for you.
If you were just going to agree with what I’m saying, you can just type “yea”.
You can save all that time you spent splitting hairs.
and that’s also why he’s gonna get in again
Or be kept out again.
Yes.
How voting works.
well I’m not American so I wish you guys luck
Way more fun to watch from the outside
in horror tho
That is why Trump was booted out of office. Because of voting.
That’s also how he was voted in, which totally destroys your argument.
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Incorrect.
Voting works both ways.
Trump can be voted in, as he was before.
Trump can be voted out, as he was before.
This is how voting works.
Emphasis: voting works.
Emphasis: voting works
Any other president being voted in and out would be proof that voting works.
Trump - and before him, Dubya - being elected is proof that money and cronyism vote presidents in in this country. In no normally functioning democracy can a guy like that get more than a single digit percentage of votes, let alone make it all the way to the White House.
Someone like Trump being elected once - and being allowed to run again with even a slight change of winning after all that’s happened - is definite proof that voting is completely broken. It doesn’t matter whether you’re democrat or republican, this much should be obvious to anyone who’s even vaguely mentally competent and totally not a matter of debate.
The electoral process is a dog-and-pony show to convince the populace that they have a say in the affairs of the country. It’s a placebo to pacify them. The reality is that they vote from a choice of candidates on offer that invariably come from a community of ultra-politically-connected billionnaires that have nothing in common with their constituents, based on lies spread by the media controlled by the same billionnaires. If you think that’s voting that works, you’re bonkers.
Nobody said that voting works perfectly, but if you want to examine voting significance relative to the extremely narrow conditions you’re talking about, we can look at how terribly conservatives have to struggle to suppress voting to infer its significance.
If voting was not important, conservatives would not have issued injunctions to halt ballot counting, they would not steal away and hide voting machines under false pretenses, they would not fabricate and mail in forged elector certificates, conservatives would not seek to expel minority voters (who tend to vote democratic), they would not try to invalidate mail-in ballots, and subsequently attempt to shut down the USPS when they realize they cannot stop people from voting, they would not fight so hard for gerrymandered counties, they would not push forward the exact false narrative that you have fallen for.
And yet they have done all of these things, and much more.
Conservatives have been struggling so hard to erase and suppress the American right to vote because they know the truth.
Voting works.
Voting works.
Obviously some people still drink the kool-aid in 2024.
Ever wondered why everybody says voting is important, and it works, and democracy-this and democracy-that and yada-yada, yet things have been slowly turning more and more Orwellian and more dysfunctional for decades? Stop and think about that for a minute.
Maybe you’ll get wise to reality at some point in your life. But don’t worry, it’s already too late: if anything, you’ll be happier if you keep your blinders.
Are you 14?
Your misapprehensions are all floating in the shallows, but apparently you think they’re deep.
eating healthier works
oh yea?? why is my leukaemia not fixed by it then
that is the level folks are arguing at when they say voting doesnt work
voting works, voting does do something, it just isnt a fix to every political issue or a heavy handed enough approach by itself
But don’t worry, it’s already too late: if anything, you’ll be happier if you keep your blinders
the irony of losers pushing defeatist cynicism while complaining that ‘go vote!!’ does nothing would be funnier if it didnt come with this shit eating smug false sense of superiority
It’s hard for people to accept we’re not heading towards the star trek future they were promised for their entire lives lol.
Its a real cold shock when they wake up and realize we’re in for civilizational collapse and misery.
Quit trying to nullify votes.
Seriously. Like not voting is going to help more.
The cult of voting has come to tell us how much it will help us all. Have faith all have faith!
Which candidate are you voting for? The genocide and climate apocalypse candidate? Or the genocide and climate apocalypse candidate?
We have 2 bad choices but don’t fool yourself into thinking they’re both the same.
I don’t know how much longer you neolibs think we can pump record amounts of oil, but I have a feeling we’ve passed the point of no return. I don’t really think it matters much who gets elected, we’re gonna be fucked by 2030.
We are screwed environmentally, I give it 20 years before the wheels fall off completely. I’m not sure what you mean by “you neolibs” though. It does matter who gets elected because if you elect Trump, it will be much worse for everyone. If you think Biden is the same as Trump then you think that nobody deserves healthcare, that immigrants are not human. Honestly, I can’t understand that position.
Im saying they’re closer than any neoliberal will ever admit. I’m a Canadian btw, Donald trump is a fat ignorant bully, the personification of how the rest of the world sees Americans.
No, not really.
Yep
Which post industrial political ideology do you believe is more engaged with environmental sustainability than western progressives?
Or are you one of those people who declares all causes preemptively lost because it frees you from the burden of getting off your ass?
Literally the protestors they’re arresting lol.
I’m one of those people that realizes it’s too late and have started preparing for climate and societal collapse.
ROFL.
The one that isn’t going to take away basic human rights, become a day one dictator, and isn’t a convicted rapist.
Stop with the bOtH siDeS foolishness. It’s embarrassing.
So you’re voting for genocide and climate apocalypse.
It’s irrelevant to you who I’m voting for. Worry about your own shit and quit trolling people on matters that don’t involve you.
Hahaha you’ve reached the point in your country where someone telling others about the actions of the administration is trolling. Maybe it’s time to start fresh my guy, America is FUBAR.
Now you’ve got me trying to remember the last time I gave a shit about what happens in Canada to the point where I felt indignant enough to troll a radom person from there about shit I have no control over because i can’t vote in their elections.
Look kid. You’re free to have your opinions. But you can gracefully fuck all the way off if you think you have ANY place to tell us what to do, or judge our intentions.
Worry about your own shit.
I’m going to block you know as I find your words as useless as anything else you may have to offer. Go cry about your nonsense to someone else. I’m done wasting my time with you.
Stay mad lmao
The one who doesn’t call himself a dictator.
Right? It’s unbelievable how mindless these kids are. The one you’re arguing with doesn’t even live in America.
I genuinely have no idea what this comment is supposed to mean.
The kid you’re responding to doesn’t live in America. So has no dog in the race on who we vote for.
Say the line Bart!
You dont pay taxes because “maybe something nice will happen” you do it because it’s the foundation of a functioning society that supports human livelihood. AND YES I KNOW things are not perfect but I still want fuckin libraries and fire stations and infrastructure maintenance and waste disposal and etc. you clown.
you likewise don’t get an education and job because “maybe something nice will happen”, you do it because you are passionate about what you do and because humans need purpose to live meaningful lives. if you picked some shitty career that doesn’t do that for you, it’s on you. unless you’re really just struggling to make ends meet, but then you wouldn’t be singing “maybe something nice” you’d be going “my kids wont starve to death”
and I’m guessing whoever made this meme never got involved in local politics… YES you can make your town better by voting. or as others said, it got a fucking insurrectionist out of highest office.
Welcome to the age of entitlement, where everting is owed to you.
I pay taxes to avoid going to jail.
if you’re saying you’re a libertarian whose only incentive to pay taxes is avoiding jail then cool I also like to play make believe
but in real life I am happy to pay taxes not to avoid punishment but because it makes society better
Taxes can be used to make society better. Usually they’re not used for that though. So I donate to charity, or give to people I care about.
Taxes demonstably don’t make society better because society is set up to only benefit the ruling class at the expense of everyone else.
come on, that’s such a sophomoric view of society. you’re ignoring the force of the majority that keeps the ruling class in check. they have to provide SOME level of comfort to their citizens in order to keep us complacent, so that they can in turn abuse us and extract even more wealth. image the difference between your world and a despotic dictatorship where people are oppressed with overt violence. the fact that the ruling class needs to use systemic forces to keep us down instead of dudes cruising our neighborhoods with assault rifles is evidence enough. it’s why police violence is one of the most egregious violations of human rights in the US: because it’s so beyond the norm.
we’re not talking about a post-capital society or a world without markets or currency. we’re talking about this world. if you remove taxes, you’re removing public welfare, infrastructure, safety measures, social security, health care, etc. I want to live in a society where the greater good is prioritized, but that doesn’t mean the current society does absolutely nothing for me.
Literally anyone who is not a white male here IS living in a despotic dictatorship where they are oppressed with overt violence. And your tax dollars pay for that.
The systemic violence isn’t actually possible without tax dollars, especially at the state and local level.
🤔 Maybe that’s the answer to our problems. Just to not pay taxes and starve the beast.
you have no idea how much worse it could be. you don’t know how lucky you are pinky! stay blessed
There are two actual issues you’re just glossing over here.
-
Tax burden lies mostly on the middle class due to a failure by society (in the US at least) to tax the richest among us. It doesn’t help that we tax things they can hide and avoid, meanwhile their wealth appears elsewhere.
-
Tax allocation doesn’t go to the correct places. This one is largely true but it also depends on the person’s individual ideas about what public money should support.
Taxation isn’t just the best possible means to make society better overall, it’s the best way to represent collective ownership via capitalism. Look up the “Land Value Tax” if you’re curious how that would actually work.
You misunderstand what I mean. The reason taxes don’t work is because governments are inherently corruptible and thus can’t be trusted with our tax money. We need a decentralized, incorruptible system that can’t be wrecked or stolen from before we can talk about putting our money into anything substantial.
-
Cynicism will kill the world faster than climate change tbh.
I am one of the most avid supporters of violent revolution on this platform and even I think you’re fucking retarded for telling people not to vote, OP.
Everyone stop listening to that dipshit
Register to vote
Vote for the non-fascist candidate who won’t destroy the country
And especially vote in local elections, because those are the ones that most greatly impact your life.
GO VOTE SO WE DON’T HAVE TO BUST OUT THE GUILLOTINES.
Vote and volunteer in local elections. I think most people would be surprised how few resources campaigns for state legislature have. You and a few friends can make a huge difference. Volunteer for the Dem (out of necessity) primary candidate that wants to replace ftp voting with ranked choice or another similar system, and show up to meetings regardless of election cycle to give input. It wouldn’t take much to get their resources up to the level of establishment candidates.
If a few good sized states could get this the others would get jealous about them having real choice and I believe it would start a snowball effect. It has to come from state legislatures though.
I mean Subways bread is technically classified as cake
So I’m down for a French revolution
My favorite advice was by a youtuber that worked at HR on a big multinational, because he didn’t sugarcoat it:
If you put in the effort, you can still fail and not get anywhere, but if you don’t, I guarantee you will not get anywhere.
You know what? This meme changed my entire political understanding of the world. Thank you sir! You’ve shown me that it’s better indeed to never vote. Because Q or something. Because Trump was always elected, always destined to be president since he was a wee little boy back in the year of our lord, 0.
Added to bio to avoid confusion.
In 2024 in the United States we don’t vote because of specific issues, rather we vote to stop (or further) the onset of an autocratic takeover.
If you want to affect issues, you approach the public and elected officials with data. You get those officials on video denying or lying which will increase their chances of getting primaried.
If necessary, you get radicalized and blow up oil pipelines. We’re now at a stage where we legitimately consider sabotage of industry and state paramilitary operations.
Voting is necessary, but not to change policy, only to keep policy from deteriorating further.
More specifically, the reason Joe Biden hasn’t solved all our issues is the same reason Trump didn’t immediately implement fascism. US politics is very specifically set up so that significant change requires longer term electoral success. This really isn’t complicated for anyone not completely blinded by lazy cynicism.
Absolutley this. These kids don’t understand that it takes more than whining about single issue problems and being “active” by posting random shit and memes on social media every four years- then ignoring the issues the remaining three.
It’s 2016 all over again with the Bernie Bros. They have no idea the damage they’re causing to their own ideology.
My local politicians represent the issues I care about well. I emailed the white house saying they need to do the same if they want to earn my vote. I’d rather watch it all burn down than take another fucking step towards all housing owned by corporations.
I hope you understand “burning it all down” includes millions of people.
I’m not doing the burning. I don’t plan to vote if my values and principles won’t be represented. How could I possibly have any blame for what others are doing? Blues have a historical political advantage and they treat it as a means to get away with fucking people over harder than they would in normal times. If they want to needlessly make it a zero sum game then that’s the game we’ll have to play.
Please enlighten me on how to make change then?
Organize. Chances are that there is only a small amount of overlap between what you want and either candidate.Thanks to the first pass the post voting system, it is likely that both candidates favor decreasing rights and increase in corporate power.
Try to get different voting systems set up. Spread information about the problems of first pass the post. Spread information about the issues you care about. Push for local candidates.
Lol sounds a lot like regular fucking democracy to me.
Yeah, it’s a bit more than casting your vote and then going home, that is because our democracy is weak.
To be clear, if all you can do is vote, do that, it’s fine, but meaningful change will not happen if everyone just votes.
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Being able and willing to buy something increases its value. Being able and willing to engage the entity you are going up aganist will gain you the leverage.
Change happens at the second when you are 100% sure you are going to engage and they back down in the last second, completing the transaction.
Why are there no changes in todays society? Because people are complacent and are disincentivised from thinking ahead, long term.
Peaceful ginormous protests leak a lot of energy to act on long term plans. They also alert authorities way ahead of time. After that they are easy to control. Protesters set aim to be peaceful. Even though violence can increase, it will be a different curve due to the orderliness, giving room for the entity to wiggle out of a badly made decision before it is too late and try again tomorrow.
Tl;Dr: something for something, you dont get free meals.
This is damn near gibberish, makes no sense, and is idiotic mental gymnastics.
You want to do something, you have to gain leverage. End of story.
I feel like some changes have happened for me
Fine, I’ll just stop doing all that then
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Maybe my parents will die soon and I can take over their mortgage
Ok what do you suggest I do instead?
The usual “answer” is to burn the system down and figure out a better one later. I’m sure someone will get to it. Definitely not someone that wants to sieze power in a vacuum though, that doesn’t happen.
I’m not sure if OP is an idiot and saying you shouldn’t vote, or if OP is big brained and is saying that you also need to organize. Any ideas?
